From a Publishing Collapse to the Thrive Side Framework

Hugh Hornsby: [00:00:05] Welcome to Blue Collar Smart, the podcast that's for people and through [00:00:10] people. A podcast that is about the trades, but it's [00:00:15] actually for everybody. Now, recently when I was in the grocery store, somebody said, "Hugh [00:00:20] tell me a little bit about your story and what you have going on." And I told him, I said, "We've got a podcast we've just [00:00:25] started." And that podcast is built around when I was 10 years [00:00:30] old, I fell on my head. I was diagnosed with epilepsy. From that point on, I [00:00:35] had a learning disability, and I had to look at the world very different [00:00:40] eyeglasses. In the ninth grade, my teacher tried to send me to special needs. I realized then I [00:00:45] didn't look at things the way everybody else did. I didn't really fit into anybody else's box, but I had [00:00:50] this ability to look at things different, and that's what Blue Collar Smart is about. It's [00:00:55] about different people that think different ways. Today, I've got Nick Alter [00:01:00] on from Austin, Texas. Nick, welcome to the show. Nick Alter: Hey, thanks for having me, Hugh. Hugh Hornsby: [00:01:05] Nick, as we get started, give the audience a little bit about who you are, you know, how it's kind of [00:01:10] brought to you to where you are, and so they can understand a little bit about where you came from [00:01:15] and then we'll maybe dive back into some of your earlier history. Nick Alter: So I'm an Austin [00:01:20] boy. Uh, been in Austin for my whole life. Uh, the [00:01:25] short version is I graduated from college. I was really... I, I went to college to go into [00:01:30] publishing and, um, not a lot of people, uh, realize this, [00:01:35] but the publishing industry, uh, and I mean, writing and, and editing and, and all the above, but [00:01:40] also just the industry itself, that was, that was what I was, and that's what I'm passionate about or was at the time. Uh, still [00:01:45] am. Um, but, uh, that industry, it, uh, it imploded, [00:01:50] uh, about the same time that the, uh, the real estate market back in 2000, you know, 2008, [00:01:55] 2009 did. And I, um, and yeah, the, [00:02:00] the, uh The fallout from that [00:02:05] was, in the industry it's been trying to figure itself out ever since, but the fallout from that was, [00:02:10] um, I, uh, I kind of was caught flat-footed and, um, I came out of college [00:02:15] trying to figure out what the heck I was gonna do. And, uh, and I fell into [00:02:20] social media, um, when it was just kind of an emerging kind of space. [00:02:25] And, um, and then That [00:02:30] turned into a journey down the pathway towards, uh, uh, digital [00:02:35] marketing, uh, you know, website, SEO. Um, and, [00:02:40] and I, I ha- I got a, I got a lot of great experience, uh, doing that. [00:02:45] Um, uh, just, I mean, I mean, thrown in the deep end, if you will, starting at the age of [00:02:50] 22. And, uh, before I knew it, I'd, I'd launched my own digital marketing agency, [00:02:55] and that agency just kind of blew up, um, uh, over the years. It [00:03:00] was a grind, don't get me wrong. Like, I mean, any- anybody that's in the agency space will tell you that is, that is a, [00:03:05] that is a tough, uh, uh, field to plow. Um, but, uh, I was extremely [00:03:10] blessed. Um, and, uh, I sold that about seven years ago. And, [00:03:15] uh, and in that time, I, I, I had the opportunity to work with a very [00:03:20] diverse, uh, uh, group of companies, uh, over the years. And that [00:03:25] looked like everything from startups to, uh, mid-market to even some [00:03:30] enterprise level groups. And, um, before I knew it, I'd worked with, uh, well [00:03:35] over 1,000 entities at that point. And, uh, in that process, everything [00:03:40] from, I mean, you name it, from, uh, um, I mean, everything in the trades [00:03:45] to, uh, to legal, to, I mean, to, you know, to business solutions, to, [00:03:50] I mean, B2B to B2C and everything in between. Just kinda, I just got exposed to a lot. [00:03:55] And, and, uh, and, and it's funny. And speaking of, you know, you know, in the, in the [00:04:00] blue car space, in the, in the trade space, like a lot of my bigger success stories of-- I made a lot of [00:04:05] people a lot of money. Um, failed a lot too, don't get me wrong. But I made a lot of people a lot of money. [00:04:10] And, um, you know, I mean, some of my bigger success stories were, like roofing companies, moving [00:04:15] companies, uh, uh, you know, construction businesses. I even started my own little construction [00:04:20] company, sold it, uh, with a couple of guys and, uh, that's a crazy story in [00:04:25] itself. And, uh, all that say about seven years ago, and I'm, I'm, I'm pretty [00:04:30] faith-driven, so, um, uh, I heard from the Lord that it was time to, to, uh, to pack it [00:04:35] up and He had other stuff in, in mind for me. And so I, uh, so I listened [00:04:40] and, um, kind of. It took me a while. [00:04:45] But, uh, I wound up selling my agency about seven years ago, and in that [00:04:50] process, it leads to what, um, what we talked about earlier and which is [00:04:55] the, uh, this thrive side framework that I've developed. So I, I took a step back and I was [00:05:00] really trying to ask a, uh, a question that was really [00:05:05] hard to Um, to answer. And if anything, it was impossible to [00:05:10] answer, and that was this, is that like why do so many businesses fail? Um, [00:05:15] and you know, I was doing research and there's alarming statistics out there that say [00:05:20] that, you know, more than 92% of, uh, uh, of all [00:05:25] businesses that are founded, um, today, they'll, they will never see a million dollars in [00:05:30] ARR. That's, uh, um, that's annual, uh, revenue, if you will. And they won't [00:05:35] see a million dollars in annual revenue in their lifetime. And so that's, [00:05:40] that's wild to me. And the thing was is, is that, you know, looking [00:05:45] back at running my agency and doing all the work that I did with all these [00:05:50] companies, um, I was... It, it was so frustrating that like we [00:05:55] would, like we'd dig in, we'd do things where like I'm like I know that, you know, this, this thing that I do [00:06:00] here, that it works. Um, but it only seemed to work, uh, maybe [00:06:05] 30% of the time or 50% of the time and, you know, and it was like why? Why [00:06:10] doesn't this... Why is this working for this group and not this group? And, and, and it was, and it was [00:06:15] maddening. It was really frustrating, and it was something that I, I mean, it really wear, you know, wore on me 'cause, uh, you know, the [00:06:20] thing is, is, is that I, um, I hated the idea of [00:06:25] tying my, um, uh, my compensation to anything but my [00:06:30] success, right? Like you think about anything that we do, and it- I don't care what industry or what [00:06:35] business you're in, um, that if you're not, if your sustainability model, [00:06:40] uh, is not tied to your outcome and to the way that you, uh, uh, [00:06:45] the way that you serve people, then, um, then it's wrong. Like that's [00:06:50] just the way I... You know, and I also believe that what sustains us owns our mission outright over time, whether we [00:06:55] like it or not, whatever that mission is. And so if those things are at odds with each other, um, [00:07:00] then you are, uh, destined to, uh, either fail or to make a lot of people very unhappy, right? [00:07:05] And so the, the way I saw it, I was just like, I was like, "God, what, what is it [00:07:10] about this that this... Why is this, why is this so, uh, so broken?" And, and [00:07:15] what hit me, um, like a ton of bricks about, uh- [00:07:20] Maybe I wrestled with this for a long time while I was in my agency, and then I, I... About a, maybe a [00:07:25] year plus while I was just kinda staring at a whiteboard, and I had a little breathing room, and I was just kinda [00:07:30] thinking about this problem, and all of a sudden I was given an opportunity to, uh, [00:07:35] to talk to, um, a, a guy that was struggling. He was really having a [00:07:40] hard time i- you know, uh, figuring out how to, how to [00:07:45] get going with what he was doing. And this guy was super successful. I mean, this dude was... He had, [00:07:50] uh, he had a, a very successful consulting practice working with big, uh, [00:07:55] engineering firms and, uh, investment groups and, and all this stuff. And [00:08:00] yet he really wanted to serve families, and he'd written a book. Uh, it was [00:08:05] all about kind of like the blue G- blue zone concept, if you know what that is. And, and [00:08:10] he was... And I mean, this guy's, I mean, he's a known quantity, uh, in that space. His name is Ryan Frederick. [00:08:15] Ryan's amazing. Um, what an extraordinarily gifted man, um, you know, with a ver- [00:08:20] like, I mean, who with a huge heart for people. Um, and he really, and he really did. He's like, he's like, "I [00:08:25] really wanna serve people, um, and help them flourish and find, you know, and help them [00:08:30] understand and navigate the, you know, what it mean, what the meaning of your physical [00:08:35] place where you live is." And so anyways, the problem was is, is that he's like, he had this great domain expertise, [00:08:40] this great, uh, experience, and this great validation behind him, and yet he could not... [00:08:45] He had spent a stupid amount of money trying to gain traction towards how do I [00:08:50] actually start, um, uh, you know, doing this? And, and I mean, he [00:08:55] was striking out left and right. Hugh Hornsby: What, Nick Alter: what- And, and- Hugh Hornsby: What do you- Go ahead. What do you think that was that was holding [00:09:00] him back? Nick Alter: I think that's, that's a fair question. I, you know... He, [00:09:05] he... We, it's funny, we, we sit down, and, and the reason we sat down together was because, uh, another [00:09:10] buddy of mine who'd been working with him was like, "Hey," um, he's like, "We've-- I, I really [00:09:15] think he probably just needs to talk to you. I think, I think you probably have a perspective that you could give him." [00:09:20] Um, and, uh, it was a, a buddy of mine who's, who owns a PR agency. And so I sit down with, [00:09:25] with Ryan. We go over his stuff, and I had this great aha moment where I realized, and I was like, [00:09:30] I was like, "Ryan, buddy, you've got great domain expertise, but I don't know how [00:09:35] this, I don't know how to sell this. Like, I mean, I, man, I, I don't know how to engage with this. [00:09:40] Like, I mean, here, we've got the book. That's, that's a thing, I guess. They've got this, this other thing, but I don't know [00:09:45] how to... How would I go sell this to families? Like, how would [00:09:50] they, how would they engage with this?" And he stopped, and he looked at me, and he's like, "I don't know."[00:09:55] Yeah, and it was this great aha moment, and what I did is in the, [00:10:00] in like out- literally kind of in that meeting and, and, and even ahead of that meeting a little bit, but like it [00:10:05] was g- it was a great God moment because I sketched out the, uh, what became [00:10:10] the Thrive Side framework in the meeting. We were sitting there, we're talking about it. It [00:10:15] was supposed to be a 30-minute conversation. It took, turned into a four-and-a-half-hour like, [00:10:20] like deep dive. It was pret- it was pretty nuts. And he was along for the ride. It was a lot of fun. And by the [00:10:25] time we were done, he sits back and he says something really cool, and he goes, "Man..." It was also [00:10:30] really weird, 'cause I didn't understand in the moment, but he said, "Man," he was like, "You just did [00:10:35] something that, uh, that my brother-in-law can never do." And I was like, I was like, "That's a [00:10:40] very strange statement, but okay. What's that?" And he goes, "You just took me from zero to one." [00:10:45] And I was like, "Well, that's cool." What I... I was like, and, and like that was kind of the beginning of, of the [00:10:50] idea of it's like, okay, I took him from zero to one, but then what? What do we do next? And I think the, [00:10:55] you know, and his brother-in-law, it turns out, is a guy named Henry Cloud, who's a, who's a big-time, uh, [00:11:00] consultant guy, and he's written, he's written several books and, um, and he, and I've got a lot of respect for [00:11:05] Henry. He's amazing. Um, but Henry helps, you know, big organizations go from what we call many to [00:11:10] more kind of concept, right? Or more to all. And so it was just a really cool experience [00:11:15] to, uh, to then just to realize... And I understood how, is, you [00:11:20] know, the idea was this is like, it's like we, knowing what needs to be done, but knowing how to [00:11:25] do it, right? I mean, that's the whole, that's what people... I mean, that's, that's what we [00:11:30] get paid to do. I mean, ultimately, I mean, I don't care what, again, doesn't matter the industry. So that [00:11:35] became the impetus of what became, I was like, all right, well, we have to figure out like what's the [00:11:40] starting point and then where do we go from there? And that became this idea of a maturity model, and a [00:11:45] maturity model meaning it's just like, how do I go from kindergarten to first grade to, you [00:11:50] know, to middle school, to high school, to college, right? Is kind of the same concept, and it's like the [00:11:55] same thing is true in business. And the reality is, is what we need to prioritize, what we need to [00:12:00] focus on actually, uh, and, and, and really like the idea is, is that it's like, [00:12:05] man, if I'm in kindergarten, I'm not really focused on, on, on trigonometry unless I'm, you [00:12:10] know, I'm some kind of freak of nature, right? Like that's, that's, that happens like one in out of every [00:12:15] billion kids. But, uh, you know, the reality is the majority of us, it's like, no, no, how do I, like say, how do I [00:12:20] take baby steps? How do I crawl, walk, run? We've heard that concept before but, you [00:12:25] know, actually putting it into a disciplined model that says, "I [00:12:30] don't care what you sell, we all sell the same thing." And like, and so then that kind of [00:12:35] became the basis of my whole, of, uh, of my whole, uh, uh, platform was I was [00:12:40] like, you know what? We use terms that we don't really know what they mean [00:12:45] And it's really hard to control something when you don't know how to [00:12:50] define something, right? And I mean, I think that's true, like think about an auto mechanic, like I mean think about your [00:12:55] car, and it's like the idea of me fixing my engine is [00:13:00] laughable, um, because I'm just not that guy. But the [00:13:05] reality is, is, is that somebody that is a gifted auto mechanic, their, like [00:13:10] thing is, is they know the thing. They know the, like the name of the things, they know [00:13:15] the definition of the things, they know how all the pieces, you know, come together. [00:13:20] And I, I'm kinda like, well what are the pieces of bu- like what are the pieces and parts of business?[00:13:25] And there's a discipline of that, right? The, there's, I mean, being able to be a great plumber, a [00:13:30] gifted plumber is no, uh, I mean, and there's, there's a system to plumbing. There's a, [00:13:35] there's a, uh, there's a process to plumbing. How, you know, uh, how pipes and, [00:13:40] and, and water pressure and all those things work, like all those things have to work together in order [00:13:45] for us to voila, get indoor plumbing and all the, uh, the trappings that come with it, right? And so the [00:13:50] same thing is true for it's like man, like it's like somebody that's really, that has a [00:13:55] domain expertise, they've got something that they're really good at, whether that's, you know, whether they're, they're a [00:14:00] painter, a mover, a, a, a, an auto mechanic, a, um, a, a, a roofer. It doesn't [00:14:05] matter. The reality is, is, is that the, uh, uh, [00:14:10] the, um, discipline of business itself, I mean that is in of itself its [00:14:15] own, um, um, it's its own domain expertise if you will, right? Hugh Hornsby: So, [00:14:20] so when, when you, when you sat down and, and you, I guess you assessed where he [00:14:25] was, 'cause sometimes people say you meet people where they are, is, is, is, [00:14:30] it basically, um, uh, it just takes, it, [00:14:35] it, it took you having that conversation with him, but [00:14:40] without you he'd been trying to figure it out but he hadn't figured it out on his own. How, how important [00:14:45] is a mentor, a coach, or somebody that really knows how? Nick Alter: Think about all the times [00:14:50] in our lives where we, we got further, we went [00:14:55] further faster because we had someone there to show us the way [00:15:00] Right? I mean, and I think that that's something oddly that we forget [00:15:05] about when we become adults, which is silly, is that it's like, [00:15:10] "Hey, I need..." And I mean, the, the, the downer, the bummer is that, you [00:15:15] know, as kids, like we take for granted that somebody else is investing in [00:15:20] us without us even realizing it, right? And like, who pays for those teachers at those schools? Who [00:15:25] pays for, you know... I mean, somebody's gotta be sacrificial and/or they need to be [00:15:30] compensated in order for them to show up often. And like, I mean, hell, even our parents, you know, they're being [00:15:35] sacrificial in the way that they show up and, you know, that they guide us, they lead us. I mean, our [00:15:40] parents are, are, are, I mean, the, the, the right design is that they are our [00:15:45] first and our main mentors throughout most of our lives, right? Um, but I think [00:15:50] that the reality is, is, is that, I mean, what each person is truly gifted [00:15:55] and designed for and what they're there to do, I mean, it's very rare [00:16:00] again for, let's say, somebody's dad or mom to be their [00:16:05] mentor in all things in their lives, right? Hugh Hornsby: Well, you know, it, it's, it's great that you say that 'cause, [00:16:10] uh, Marlon Mueller, I don't know if you know Marlon or not, but he, uh- [00:16:15] You know, he saved the family farm back in the farm crisis, and he realized that his, his [00:16:20] granddad and his dad were his mentor, and they'd done a great job of teaching him how to farm, [00:16:25] but he, uh, they hadn't done a, you know, they had not done the job of teaching him [00:16:30] how to, um, how money works. And he had to find mentors that [00:16:35] taught him how money works, and he ended up saving his farm and probably two or three other farms over [00:16:40] in Iowa at the same time. So that point i- is really great. So do you, [00:16:45] in, in, in the, when you sit down with people, is there a, is there a [00:16:50] process that you usually try to take them through? Nick Alter: Yeah. I mean, ultimately [00:16:55] what we... And there, there's a couple answers to that. I'll, I'll start with, with where [00:17:00] we, where we've been and where we are now. All, is, is, uh, is a little bit [00:17:05] different in a good thing, in a good way, um, because it's a lot more accessible. But I mean, in [00:17:10] order to automate anything, you've gotta, you've gotta be able to do it manually first enough times to [00:17:15] know that like, oh yeah, this is something that we can automate and it will still actually produce [00:17:20] the same results if at least hopefully as good if not better than if we were to do it, to do it, you [00:17:25] know, on the, the m- the manual side. So on the manual side, historically what, [00:17:30] um, what we, what we do is, uh, so what I've done is I've developed a, [00:17:35] a mapping system if you will. So I've got a seven-stage market maturity model [00:17:40] that I've developed, and that sounds super fancy. All that really means is [00:17:45] I've come up with the, uh, seven kinda main stages, [00:17:50] if you will, of business, uh, through the lens of what we [00:17:55] sell. And I define those as here are the seven stages of market. So think [00:18:00] about it, it's like again, like I, uh, we start with a, [00:18:05] um, somebody that, that they're like, "I'm just starting out. I'm just trying to figure out how to get my... Like, I don't [00:18:10] even know what I sell yet." Um, you know, that kind of thing. And all the way through [00:18:15] to it's like, "Hey, I've got a team. Uh, we're hitting, like, I can't seem to get past, you know, uh, [00:18:20] 10 million in sales, uh, year over year and I'm just, you know, I'm struggling with like, you know, what [00:18:25] does that look like?" So my, my, my system is, my, my mapping [00:18:30] system is, is, is really driven around this idea of [00:18:35] revenue because revenue is the lifeblood of the business, right? And saying like, "Hey, if we don't [00:18:40] have money coming into the business, the business doesn't exist." So [00:18:45] like all the, all the trappings of, you know, and like, you know, and, you know, every, everybody [00:18:50] is like, well, it's like I've got great systems and processes around my operations, around my, [00:18:55] uh, maybe around my finances, maybe around other parts of the company, but [00:19:00] the reality is, is, is that, um, we tend to lack or we-- I have [00:19:05] yet to find another, uh, model [00:19:10] or framework out there that, um, you know- that exists [00:19:15] that does a good job of mapping out positions of [00:19:20] market and our approach to that as it pertains to what we [00:19:25] sell as the kind of the blue dot on the map, and then the revenue [00:19:30] piece being the focus, if you will, of saying like... And then like, you know, we talk [00:19:35] about terms like marketing and sales. I don't really like those terms a lot because unfortunately, I, I [00:19:40] feel like most people, again, they don't have a good working definition of it, and actually a lot of people have [00:19:45] different definitions of those things. And then what winds up happening is, is it's really, and like if everybody's got a different [00:19:50] definition of it It doesn't, it turns... And like, it just means what you want it to mean, and [00:19:55] it's like, no, no, in order for, in order for a word to have meaning, it has to have a [00:20:00] shared definition that we all are in agreement to, that we're all following along with, [00:20:05] right? Hugh Hornsby: Yeah I would think that would be really important depending on the size of the company, [00:20:10] um, because- You'd be, you'd be surprised you gotta make sure that you're... No, I, I... No, it doesn't [00:20:15] surprise me. But that would be important that everybody kinda knows that they're moving in the same direction. [00:20:20] Nick Alter: Right. And also that they know what the direction is, right? Like, what is the direction? What are we [00:20:25] basing that off of? Like, and let's just use the term like marketing as an example, right? I, I [00:20:30] mean, if you go around, like, if you've got a leadership team, it's a fun exercise for anybody that's listening to this, [00:20:35] is go around to your leadership team and ask every single person on your leadership team, say, "Hey, what's marketing?" And [00:20:40] like ask them on the spot. Don't give them time to, to think about, you know, just be like, "Hey, what's your definition of that?" And [00:20:45] what you'll see is, is you're gonna get a different definition for every single person from on your leadership team. [00:20:50] Well, we can all agree that marketing, or the assumption is that marketing is a [00:20:55] core pillar of the business somehow. Like, we, we use a term that we can't [00:21:00] all agree on the definition of. We all also, but we can all agree that, oh, yeah, no, that's a core part of the [00:21:05] company or the business. And you're like, okay, but now I'm concerned [00:21:10] because if we don't have all an operating definition of it, then we don't know what it is, so what in the [00:21:15] world... How do we, how are we all aiming at the right thing, right? How are we all... Like, we, [00:21:20] like the thing is, is just like we don't have that problem with things like, you know, [00:21:25] again, when we talk about fulfillment or we're talking about running the process of, uh, of [00:21:30] installing a floor, right? Like, it's very clearly defined. Hugh Hornsby: Or, or making sure [00:21:35] product A comes, comes down the line in, you know, a certain amount of time. You're right. [00:21:40] Marketing is very much a gray area. Nick Alter: Right. And so, so when we think about, when we think about [00:21:45] the idea of, of, you know, like my... Like, so my system is, is just that I'm- I always, [00:21:50] uh, what I'm able to do, and usually within five to eight minutes of talking to [00:21:55] anybody, is I can map exactly where they [00:22:00] are. And I, and like funnily enough, I'll show the... I even have a visual tool that I've [00:22:05] developed that, uh, you know, looks pretty, uh, it kinda looks scary at first, but then once I'm like, "No, ignore all these [00:22:10] pieces, just focus on these, and you tell me where do you think you are? [00:22:15] First of all, tell me what you sell And, you know, that usually takes an hour, which is [00:22:20] disturbing, right? I mean, the trick is, is, is that in order for... And, like, you know this, Hugh. I mean, [00:22:25] in, in your, in your, in, like, where you've been and what you've done, it's just like, you're like, look, I [00:22:30] can only really sell something successfully if you can hand me basically a single sheet of paper [00:22:35] and I can look at that and say, "Yeah, I can do this." Right? Like, my ability [00:22:40] to look at and be like, "Oh, I understand what this is, who this is for, and what, uh, what the [00:22:45] impact, benefit, and value of this thing is." And it's like, sure, I've got some questions, but at the end of [00:22:50] the day is, is, is that in a matter of moments I'm like, "Oh, I get it. All right. Yeah. [00:22:55] Now let's go from there." Right? And the reality is, is like that's usually a really good starting point. And, [00:23:00] like, to people in the blue collar space, it's like, I mean, excuse the French, but it's like, no shit, Sherlock. [00:23:05] I mean, you know, it's like, hey, I, like, I've got a, I've got a moving service, or I've got a, uh, I've got a [00:23:10] lawn service, or I've got a... And that's great. What a blessing. But the problem then becomes is, is, [00:23:15] is that, like, the, the gotcha is like, okay, but what makes it uniquely better? Are you the [00:23:20] 47th flooring company coming in or landscaping group coming into this neighborhood? And you're [00:23:25] like, and you've got this play- you've got the playbook of throwing out the flyers and doing the thing. Like, here's the thing is, is, [00:23:30] is that, like, that's, first of all, that's a grind, and second of all, like, that, like, what are you going up [00:23:35] against is, again, 46 better established, more validated [00:23:40] organizations and companies that, and quite frankly, several of them are better than [00:23:45] you. So you tell me what about this is Hugh Hornsby: uniquely better. So your system kind of, uh, [00:23:50] identifies that? Because I always, you know, I've sell- sold in the [00:23:55] plumbing industry A lot of people call it commodity, and I always said, "No, it's not a [00:24:00] commodity." I- if you make it a commodity, that's what it's gonna be. You know? It's, it's the [00:24:05] value that you bring to the table, and actually I'm getting ready to give a keynote on it [00:24:10] next week. So you kinda go through that with your client base and kinda figure [00:24:15] out where they are? Nick Alter: Yeah. That's if they're, that's if that's where they're at, right? Like, again, the first step is [00:24:20] just mapping. I don't call it diagnosis, diagnosis, I just call it finding your [00:24:25] location, right? So find your location on the map and, like, because, like, on a, [00:24:30] uh... So, so all of that to say, I'll, I'll, I'll put it this way. So that's how we've done [00:24:35] it historically, and now what we've done, thanks to AI, is I've partnered up [00:24:40] with, um, one of my best friends, uh, just we- he just left Meta [00:24:45] and, uh, he was a senior, I mean, he was a leader. He was on the leadership team over at Meta, leading engineering [00:24:50] turn- teams and building a lot of Meta's, like, business tools and FP&A systems, and [00:24:55] I think, I don't know, whatever he was doing. Um, stuff in finance. Uh, I just, whenever I think [00:25:00] finance, I think FP&A. And, um, anyways, and so he was doing a lot of that, but he left [00:25:05] there and he was so enamored by, like, we'd been talking, like, he'd been just kinda sidecar [00:25:10] with me for years, um, kind of watching and listening to what I was, and, like, what I was talking about and doing, and [00:25:15] he's like, "Oh, I love this." And he goes, "You know what? This is so, this is so needed." And he's like, "Guess what I can do?" [00:25:20] And he took the whole thing, my whole model, put it into an AI box, [00:25:25] uh, and, uh, took my brain, put it in the box as well, along with our, you know, basically [00:25:30] all of our systems and processes, and said, "All right. Now we have something that we can [00:25:35] give to people that can't afford you." And I'm like, "Okay [00:25:40] And so, and it will grow with them, and it becomes their source of truth for things, for, [00:25:45] for all things revenue. And I'm like, "All right, well, prove it to me." And so we did. And so now we have this thing called [00:25:50] CoBuilder AI that literally does exactly that, what I'm talking about. And [00:25:55] it's a great place, especially for those that are just getting started, because a lot of my personal time these days, [00:26:00] I mean, I'm, I'm the chief revenue officer for about six different organizations, uh, on a [00:26:05] fractional basis, and, you know, in the mid-market space, and these guys are growing and [00:26:10] expanding. Like, I, I mean, I do that for the, I'm the, I do that for the CFO Alliance. I do that for, [00:26:15] um, uh, I do that for First Water Finance. I do that for, um, I [00:26:20] just, uh, now for Bravo Ordnance. I'm doing it for, um, uh, uh, [00:26:25] Paradise Jets and, and several others, right? And so, like, and so I do a lot of that at that, and I consult at that [00:26:30] level, and I mean, and it's like, you know, I've got to be fair to my family. My wife will kill me if I don't, you know, if I don't bring the bacon. [00:26:35] And so, anywho, and also I got to fund all this. Like I, I, I mean, we don't l- well, [00:26:40] funding and, and, uh, uh, investment and all that, that's a whole other conversation for another [00:26:45] time. But, um, anyways, but the i- but, you know. So, so that's [00:26:50] what we've done now is, is we've taken that, and so those that are just trying to figure [00:26:55] out, like, what we call there's, there's kind of two sides. There's immature business, is what we call it. That [00:27:00] sounds negative, and it kind of is, like, if I'm being honest. Like, you know, it's kind of like, look, because let's be [00:27:05] fair. Again, go back to that 92% I was talking about. That's a real problem. And the problem, uh, the [00:27:10] other problem is is, and you know this, Hugh, um, you see it all the time these days, guaranteed, is [00:27:15] there's a lot of folks that are probably listening to this that are also, that are out there that they can't exit [00:27:20] their company. Like, their business is not sellable. Well, Hugh Hornsby: And I was gonna say I [00:27:25] think maybe I was having a conversation with Dr. Sam McGougjh yesterday, and he's a [00:27:30] great guy, and he has medical clinics. He's getting into the HVAC business. He said [00:27:35] 13 out of 14 companies just have to shut down. Now, whether that number is correct or [00:27:40] not, I don't know. Nick Alter: I've, I've heard some wild statistics all the way up to... I've got [00:27:45] business brokers I talk to all the time that are like, they're like, "Yeah, 95%," and they're, they're not [00:27:50] exaggerating. They're saying, "95% of everybody that comes to me, I have to say no to because [00:27:55] they're not sellable." And it, like, that is so [00:28:00] demoralizing. That's so s- that's so tragic because so many of those people, I [00:28:05] mean, they've spent their lives and, you know, basically bui- like, you know, running this thing. [00:28:10] But there's a difference between running something and building something, right? In their minds, it feels like [00:28:15] building, but in reality, the majority of people, it's like even if you're like, "Wait, I've got employees." And it's [00:28:20] like, yeah, but if you were to step out of your business today, what would happen to the business? Who, Hugh Hornsby: who's gonna run it? Nick Alter: Right. And [00:28:25] the answer is just like, "Well, that's why I'm selling it." No, you're not selling a business. You're trying to sell something [00:28:30] that was really just you, and you had a bunch of helpers. Hugh Hornsby: And Nick, you and I had this [00:28:35] conversation a couple of weeks ago. There's a lot of sharks out there right now that [00:28:40] just kinda come up that say they have systems and they're gonna help people [00:28:45] sell their business But I think businesses just need to be careful. [00:28:50] And I wanna say this, Nick, because, um, you know, you and I are, are, are new [00:28:55] friends, but guys, Nick has a heart of gold. You know, he is very faithful, and he [00:29:00] does this because he cares. And when you're looking for somebody to help you [00:29:05] build your business, you wanna find somebody that's aligned with you. I just wanted to, I wanted to fit [00:29:10] that in there, Nick. So- Nick Alter: Oh, thanks, Hugh Hornsby: man. I Nick Alter: appreciate Hugh Hornsby: that. That's sweet ... Nick Alter: um, Hugh Hornsby: and that's huge. [00:29:15] And I always said when I built this podcast, I wouldn't do business with anybody that didn't have the same core values [00:29:20] as me, and Nick has those. So anyway, didn't mean to cut you off. Nick Alter: No, no, I appreciate [00:29:25] that. Like, you know, I, I, I think that part of this too is it's just that, um, I'll, I'll kinda get into [00:29:30] another bucket of crazy that I... So again, my- the way my brain works is, is just that [00:29:35] I'm, um, we talked about this. We talked about systems smart versus blue collar smart, and, [00:29:40] um, in some ex- you know, some respects, like, dude, when I started my very first company that I started when I was 15, [00:29:45] um, you know, was, it was out of necessity, and it was [00:29:50] me basically, I was, uh, I was doing project-- Um, I'm sorry. I was [00:29:55] doing property management basically, um, uh, you know, for, for families, uh, [00:30:00] around our community that, you know, I mean, that was That's how I'd start. I would-- I [00:30:05] started with house sitting, that turned into, you know, then turned into more of a property management thing and doing [00:30:10] things. So like, I mean, I'd get my hands dirty and like, you know, I had a lot of jobs, uh, growing up, you [00:30:15] know, everything. I work, I mean, I worked with, uh, Lakeway Marina, I ran kids camps. I love kids. [00:30:20] Uh, I've got three of my own. Um, and, uh, I do. Like, it's funny, like when I went into [00:30:25] publishing, what I wanted to do was kids literature was, was really what I went to school for [00:30:30] and, uh, still have a huge passion and heart for that. But the, you know, but in all [00:30:35] that though, it's just like, I mean, dude, I ran a restaurant. I did, I mean, I've d- I, I've done, I've done a lot of [00:30:40] things and I've, I've been exposed to a lot and I'm like, and, and I mean I loved, uh, [00:30:45] so like I understand getting your hands dirty and doing the hard work. Um, you [00:30:50] know, I, I, and I still, I mean, you know, there's, there are things that I, [00:30:55] uh, uh, that I relegate now that I, you know, that I have to like, I just don't have time for.[00:31:00] But at the same time though, is it's just that like I have a lot of respect and a lot of passion [00:31:05] for, um, the p- somebody's ability to get in and like my father-in-law [00:31:10] is a, is a custom home builder and, um, and he's so gifted. And the thing is, [00:31:15] is despite how successful that man has been, um, and he doesn't talk a lot and he's pretty [00:31:20] quiet and I mean, he's a good old boy from, you know, from, uh, uh, from West Texas and it's where he's, you know, [00:31:25] um, it's where he came from and, um, Amarillo [00:31:30] area and, and he, uh, uh, he, he can, he can has, he has a temper sometimes, [00:31:35] but I mean, that man, despite all of that, despite all of his success and everything, like, I [00:31:40] mean, he still gets down in the dirt and he still gets to work. I mean, he still gets his hands dirty and he's teaching my [00:31:45] boys that, you know, those, you know, those skills and some of those values and like he'll take them [00:31:50] and like, I mean, he freaked me out, uh, uh, you know, a couple years ago. [00:31:55] Um, I'm, I'm showing up, like I'm driving up. He's got one of my kiddos with him, had been with him all day on a job, [00:32:00] and I roll up and all of a sudden he's like, he's standing here and there's a, [00:32:05] there's an excavator moving this way, and it's a huge one. It's like a, one of those really, really [00:32:10] big ones. And I'm like, "What's, uh, where's, uh, where's Teague?" And he was like, [00:32:15] "Uh, there." And I'm like, he was in the, yeah, he was like three or [00:32:20] four at the time and I'm like, or I was like, "What are you doing?" He's like, "Oh, he can't hurt nothing." [00:32:25] And I'm like, "You're insane." But I mean, and he's like, "It's good, it's good for [00:32:30] him to learn." I'm like, "Dude, he's four." Like, "It's, you're nuts." And he's like, "I started driving tractor when [00:32:35] I was six." And I was like, "Uh, okay." Um, you know, so like we, you know, [00:32:40] we think about those, those kinds of, those kinds of lessons and, um, [00:32:45] man, I, uh- I think that it goes back to the original [00:32:50] point you made around, or that you, you know, thing, the original question you asked is, is like how important is a [00:32:55] mentor, a guide? And, and the thing is, is, is that [00:33:00] I don't care how old we are, right? I, like, I run a men's group here in [00:33:05] Austin that when we started we had 10 guys. Um, and I run that with a few other guys. Like, we, [00:33:10] it's not just me. It's, it's, it's a team of us. Um, and really the, the, the idea wasn't like [00:33:15] I... There was not an intention really to run anything. I just wanted a community of men [00:33:20] that I could run with, that I could learn from, and if there's things that I could do to help as [00:33:25] well, yeah, absolutely. But we need community. We desperately need community in the way that we do this, in the [00:33:30] way that we build business, and the same thing is true for when we talk about, you know, it's like to your point, [00:33:35] it's, it's like it's, it's somebody that's going to exit their company or whatever. I don't care that you're 60, [00:33:40] 70 years old. Like, you don't know everything And like, [00:33:45] I've got all that respect for what you've done, but the reality is, is just that, like, if, if [00:33:50] our ego and our pride gets in the way of our ability [00:33:55] to, uh, to ask for help and to learn new things and to, you know, and be [00:34:00] patient with ourselves and with others, then it's kind of like, well, I'm sorry, but, like, that's n- [00:34:05] that's your, that's your failing. That's, that's your hubris talking, right? And so I [00:34:10] think what, you know... And, and I mean, like that men's group I mentioned, we went from 10 [00:34:15] guys, we're over 600 guys in that group now. That just proves how desperately [00:34:20] needed that is, right? And, and I think that, and [00:34:25] like there's people that you've known your entire life that you've never really talked to, [00:34:30] that don't really know you. Hugh Hornsby: It's funny you're saying that 'cause, [00:34:35] Dr. Greg Bourgond who is a C.S. Lewis Rhodes scholar and [00:34:40] traveling scholar, he just dropped on our podcast today. You should listen to it. You'll love it. Nick Alter: [00:34:45] Oh, I can't wait. I love that. Hugh Hornsby: But, but he's got, he's got a book called "The Winter of Life." [00:34:50] And, and if, you know, if, if you're not dead, you're alive, and it, it talks [00:34:55] about that next step. Um, and y- you know, it's, it's, it's a pretty [00:35:00] amazing story and, and he does talk about men 'cause he runs men's group all over the country. [00:35:05] Um, you know, as, as, as we kind of, you know, talk [00:35:10] through this, um, you, you were talking about AI and, [00:35:15] and you being able, you know, coming up with a system for people [00:35:20] because they either can't afford you or you don't have enough time to, to see that many [00:35:25] people. Can you, can you talk about that a little bit more for these founders and these people that are [00:35:30] in that, not necessarily just, "I can't sell my business," but maybe it's the [00:35:35] ones that are out there that are getting into the business that can put that plan together, so at some [00:35:40] point they can, you know, exit in the way they want to exit. Nick Alter: No, that's... Yeah, totally. [00:35:45] A- and by the way, like we, and like my- My desire was, [00:35:50] was, was to, to help people to navigate or to, uh, [00:35:55] architect something that they could exit from. And when we talk about, by the way, the idea of the exit, first of all, [00:36:00] the... W- I'll talk about that F- uh, that AI stuff here in a second. I w- I wanna be, I wanna be fundamentally clear about [00:36:05] something for most people that they need to understand. Exit is a, [00:36:10] uh, is a multi-threaded concept, right? Like, what everybody [00:36:15] understands what exit means, I'm not necessarily mean- meaning selling the [00:36:20] business always. I mean, it may be a su- it might be succession. It might [00:36:25] be, um, uh, M&A. It might be IPO. It might [00:36:30] be, uh, obsolescence, unfortunately. It might be... I mean, there's, there's several [00:36:35] things that, that what we mean when we say the word exit, and I, you know, I call it the [00:36:40] final event, if you will, in a way, for you, for whoever y- you know, you are. And, um, and I think [00:36:45] the important thing there is, is just that what we're really trying to achieve, guys, is we're trying to build a [00:36:50] sustainable turnkey business. How do I create something that's sustainable in the [00:36:55] market and, you know, that helps a lot of people, brings a lot of value, has a lot of impact, um, [00:37:00] and you know, that has a... that we can guarantee an outcome and that we're proud of, that we, you know, that we [00:37:05] can stand behind and we're like, "Man, this is, you know, this is something that, you know, like I would w- I'd sell this to my [00:37:10] grandma." And, uh, you know, and, and then, and then, and then beyond that is [00:37:15] this idea of like the... I think the real win is the ability [00:37:20] to... It's like this thing can like... It's that you've got it to a point where you've got the right systems and processes in [00:37:25] place where your job is less about running the day-to-day and it's more [00:37:30] about the culture of the business. It's more about the, um, uh, [00:37:35] uh... Then that's where it's like when the sustainability model is turnkey and it's working, it's flourishing, [00:37:40] then the mission can flourish, right? And then you become the steward of the mission of. Like, I [00:37:45] know so many good guys, like, uh, my buddy Ross Jenkins, who's blowing me up right now. Um, [00:37:50] his family is, they run a, one of the, the, I think the largest drywall, um, [00:37:55] uh, uh, kingdom in the, in the state of Alabama, [00:38:00] Georgia, something like that. And, uh, and, uh, they're coming, but they've got a-- their family [00:38:05] office, he stewards their, uh, their, their generosity, you know, [00:38:10] for their family office. And like, and they're-- And the thing is, is he's calling me and he's like, "Hey, how do [00:38:15] we lift up others to..." He's like, "I want two things." He's like, "I wanna li- I wanna, I wanna help [00:38:20] other successful guys and gals, but other successful business people to [00:38:25] actually figure out how to be a better steward of their generosity and approach that, and like what's [00:38:30] that model look like?" And then the other side of it is he's like, "I wanna help m- even more [00:38:35] people come into a position of, of, of, of, of abundance." And not [00:38:40] prosperity gospel, but like, he's like, "No, no. Our-- How do we lift others up and how are we-- how do we go out of [00:38:45] our way sacrificially to do that? Because that's how I think I can bless a lot of people." And I'm like, "Dude, love that." And I think [00:38:50] that that's really the, you know, that's the thing that we're-- When we talk about exit, that's the kind of exit we should be [00:38:55] thinking about, right? Not how do I, how do I go sell my thing, go out on the golf course or buy my expensive boat and, and [00:39:00] do it. We should be able to enjoy, you know, there should be joy in the things that we're doing. But like that's what we [00:39:05] mean by an exit, right? Is that because there's nothing biblical about going [00:39:10] and retiring. It's like, dude, I've got 100 and... We're designed for 120 years. Most of us don't make it [00:39:15] that far, right? And but the reality is, is, is that like, you, you know, look at, [00:39:20] like I look at guys like Mark McClain, who's, you know, IPO'd his company twice, and you know, [00:39:25] the dude's now a billionaire. And I've never met anybody more inspiring in the way that [00:39:30] in his, in how he approaches generosity, how he approaches his version of [00:39:35] the exit is kind of extraordinary. I think his book just came out too. I highly recommend. And if you, if I can get him [00:39:40] on your podcast, I'll try to do that for you. But- Yeah. Hugh Hornsby: I'd love to have both those guys because that's really what it's about. [00:39:45] And listen to Dr. Greg Bourgond because he's just an amazing person. I'll do an [00:39:50] introduction with you. Nick Alter: Oh, I'd love that. Yeah, that'd be fun. I, I would love to talk to him. Um, and then [00:39:55] so the, the final thing is, is, is that just feel like you'd asked, um, 'cause I'm apparently I'm, I'm super concise [00:40:00] here. Um, sorry about that. I, I Apparently I, I, I hate to talk, let me tell you. [00:40:05] Uh, the, uh, at least I'm self-aware. The, the other [00:40:10] side of the coin, um, going back to founder or w- so we have something called Founder's Best [00:40:15] Friend that we had created to be the, [00:40:20] um, uh, the activation arm, the, the engagement arm for my, my whole [00:40:25] Thrive Side thesis, that whole framework, that model that we call that Thrive Side. But Founder's Best Friend [00:40:30] is our vehicle by which we actually help people and lift them up. So underneath, [00:40:35] underneath Founder's Best Friend we've built, that's where Co-Builder AI lives. And so [00:40:40] what I can do for anybody listening in, and really this'll, guys, this is really Hugh doing [00:40:45] this, is, uh, because it's AI, it costs money and, you know, those are [00:40:50] tokens. It, it's real dollars to, you know, to, to run that thing, um, for people to use [00:40:55] it. Um, but what we really desire is, like anybody that's serious [00:41:00] about leveling up, they want to go... They, they really wanna start, uh, working on their [00:41:05] business. They really wanna get out of that, that rut, um, whatever you wanna call it. They're ready to take those steps or [00:41:10] they're eager to go. We, um, like so Hugh and I, we, we'll buy [00:41:15] you your first month on the platform. So it's 97 bucks a month [00:41:20] to be on Co-Builder AI. Um, you know, and our goal was just that how do we [00:41:25] make something that has historically been inaccessible to a lot of business [00:41:30] owners and founders, how do we make this really accessible? And so bec- and by the very nature of [00:41:35] Co-Builder AI, in of itself, it's also, it, it matures along with you. [00:41:40] As you, it'll figure out where you are And it will, like, diagnose that, and then it will go in [00:41:45] and be like, "Okay, we're here. We have some gaps to fill to get, like, that from, you know, from behind us. [00:41:50] Let's get up there. Let's get that, like, current." And then it's, and then it'll, and it'll literally say, it's like, "All right, you're here, and you [00:41:55] need to go here next, and you need to go here next, you need to go here next." And so it'll actually work alongside you [00:42:00] and do that, and then it will actually do the work. In many cases, it'll ask you questions and will even do some of the work for you, if [00:42:05] not a lot of the work for you. And so that's what CoBuilder... And then as you get to a certain level or inflection [00:42:10] points, then it unlocks a bunch of other needed tools and, and systems. And [00:42:15] sure, it gets more expensive, but at that, by that time, you are, like, I mean, [00:42:20] it's, it's already proven its value, you know, a hundredfold, 1,000X over, right? [00:42:25] So, so, uh, but as I said, the starting point there is, is just that I'll give, I'll set Hugh up for [00:42:30] anybody listening. I'll set Hugh up with his own, um, uh, his ability to gift you [00:42:35] guys, um, your first month, anybody that wants to, to get on that. Hugh Hornsby: Yeah we'll work that out. We'll put it [00:42:40] up on the website one of the things I love, Nick we talk about what the issues [00:42:45] are going on in the trades, and I think trades, I think anybody that's selling [00:42:50] into the trades as well, but what you have works for any business [00:42:55] and there's a solution that's here. So thanks for offering that, and I'll make sure that [00:43:00] our audience knows how to grab ahold of that. If there's a way that people [00:43:05] need to get ahold of you, Nick, what's the best way to go about it? Nick Alter: I mean, they, I mean, I, I'm, I'm [00:43:10] actually pretty, um, I'm pretty accessible. Uh, anybody can email me at [00:43:15] nick@thriveside.com. Um, and, uh, if there's the, I can, I [00:43:20] can give you, Hugh, um, my calendar link, so if anybody, um, you know, or, uh, [00:43:25] actually one of my other business partners, David Daniel, he's also equally, um, uh, [00:43:30] gifted and, like, he's, he's, he's my co-runner on this. Um, [00:43:35] helped me build the whole system out the way it is today. So I'll, uh, you know, we, [00:43:40] we'll give you guys some access points for how to schedule time if you want it. Hugh Hornsby: Certainly, and you can [00:43:45] definitely come through me at www.thebluecollarsmart.com [00:43:50] as well. I want them to have access because there's a lot of oh wow [00:43:55] moments out there. Nick when I was a kid, I was diagnosed with epilepsy and [00:44:00] a learning disorder and I would come home when my teacher would try to send me special [00:44:05] needs or whatever it may be, or whatever failure I had, my mom would say "Hugh, you've [00:44:10] got 15 minutes for a pity party, and then you can take this pad and pen and go [00:44:15] upstairs and kind of assess where you are and then come back down and tell me what you're gonna do [00:44:20] about it. So if there was a yellow pad moment for Nick Alter, what would that have [00:44:25] been? Nick Alter: Maybe I'll give you two. One is, uh, when, when I was a, when I was [00:44:30] still in, you know, high school and college, um, ironically, I, [00:44:35] um, I have really bad... I, I don't know what it is. They, they can't even, like, they [00:44:40] can't even diagnose it. Like it's ADHD or something, who knows? And the problem is, is, is that [00:44:45] I really struggle with, uh, writing long form content. My ability, [00:44:50] um, the, and so one thing I did get diagnosed with is, is, is that, [00:44:55] um, if it sounds like I don't have complete sentences, I talk really fast and it's, and like [00:45:00] you'll hear sometimes when I get, um, I'll struggle where I, uh, I, I won't [00:45:05] almost complete a thought and I'll jump to something else as we're having the conversation. What's really [00:45:10] happening is, uh, and like, and so I, I went and got actually diagnosed 'cause [00:45:15] it wasn't for me, it was just like, I was like, man, if, if this is, uh, something that my kids are gonna, um, [00:45:20] inherit, um, I wanna be able to help them. I need to know what this is. Turns out is, is that there's, [00:45:25] you know, of course we've got IQ, but we also have the, we have processing speed.[00:45:30] And what I'm blessed, it's very, it's a huge blessing is, is that I've got a really, [00:45:35] um, I, I've, I've... According to their studies and whatever, [00:45:40] my processing speed is above the 90, like it's above 99%. It's [00:45:45] somewhere, somewhere way, way up here. And that sounds like, "Oh, you know, woe is you. You're, [00:45:50] you've got this thing." But the problem is, is, is that it actually is, it's really, really hard [00:45:55] to, like from a functional standpoint, I struggle [00:46:00] to communicate what it is that's going on up here. [00:46:05] And so it makes it really hard to have conversations. It makes it really hard to, and [00:46:10] especially when I'm, um, under stress or distracted or, you know, things like [00:46:15] that, it, and it's really hard for me to focus. It's really hard for me to, to be able to dial in and say like, "Okay, I'm gonna [00:46:20] be able to, you know, get this thing done." And so that's my... And so, you know, and, [00:46:25] and W- we had, I had less of a, [00:46:30] um... I lacked that, that, uh, that the mom s- that [00:46:35] would sit down and be like, "Hey, hon, you know, here's your, you know, here's your..." Like, I didn't get that moment, right? I [00:46:40] kinda had to build it. I had to do it myself in, in a way, and I had to be, like, I had to make a decision, and I was [00:46:45] like, "You know what? There's plenty of people," and I had friends, uh, and continue to have [00:46:50] friends, you know, that were struggling with... And it's like, it's like, you know, it's like, man, there's people that are struggling with way worse things than I've got [00:46:55] going on. But the, the, the reality is, though, is, is s- yes, [00:47:00] and, like, and it's like, and that's good, that's a good reminder, but that doesn't diminish the fact that this [00:47:05] is something that I'm struggling Hugh Hornsby: with. I love that you're saying that because I see it, you know? It's [00:47:10] like what can be small to somebody and that's, that's big. So I didn't mean to cut you off, [00:47:15] but- Nick Alter: No, you're Hugh Hornsby: fine ... um, you know. No, you're... Nick Alter: Please. Hugh Hornsby: Um, I, I also have a- It's the only way I can Nick Alter: get a word in edgewise. [00:47:20] Hugh Hornsby: Yeah, well, I also have a feeling you probably see things other people don't see, and that's [00:47:25] probably an gift that Nick Alter: you have. Well, I mean, that's why I, that's why I do what I do with these, like, the systems things and how I, like, and how I [00:47:30] architect things and, and I mean, that's why I do what I do. But I think that, that to land that real [00:47:35] quick, the last thing I'll say about it is that, you know, um, again, [00:47:40] j- uh, you know, it's like, it's like, look, your, your challenges, your hills, your [00:47:45] mountains that you're climbing, the things that you're dealing with, the things you struggle with, and for some people, and by the [00:47:50] way, that, I mean, that's, that can manifest as addiction. That could manifest [00:47:55] as, uh, you know, um, as, uh, uh, [00:48:00] a discipline problem or a motivation problem or what, you know, it may even just be that. But the [00:48:05] reality is, this is that we're like, man, I'm, like... And it, it, what's, what's most important about [00:48:10] that, I think, is, is that first of all, God's got it. He's got [00:48:15] you. And the thing is, is just that, like, I mean, and, uh, and He'll be [00:48:20] patient with you, and that you just need to be honest about, like, "Hey, I'm struggling with [00:48:25] this." And again, it goes back to the very first thing we talked about, like finding [00:48:30] people to help you and find, and just being honest about, like, "This is what I struggle with." Not to be pity, not to [00:48:35] pity yourself, not to be, you know, "Woe is me," but to say, "Hey, I'm working on this. [00:48:40] I'm looking for resources. I'm looking for ways to overcome this." Could really [00:48:45] use, and then, like, and then be, the thing is, is that being, uh, willing to be vulnerable about [00:48:50] that and then be like, "Hey," and be willing to listen, right? I think most people struggle, especially in this culture, [00:48:55] we struggle to hear and listen when somebody is willing to give us advice or somebody is willing to be like, [00:49:00] "Hey, been there, done that." And it's like, hey, you may think that [00:49:05] you, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I've tried that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know all about that. The answer is shut up [00:49:10] I mean, if y- if this is still a problem, you don't have a handle on it. So let's talk about [00:49:15] that Hugh Hornsby: When people turn off the podcast a lot of times they'll say [00:49:20] "Man, I wish Hugh would've asked this question." Was there a question that I didn't ask that, [00:49:25] that you can share with the group? Nick Alter: Uh, oh, maybe, maybe the right question to ask is this, is [00:49:30] that, 'cause a lot of guys and a lot of people, not just dudes, and there's women, you know, listening too, um, [00:49:35] is, and like we talked about this earlier and maybe a good follow-on question would've been, but [00:49:40] how do I start community? How do I [00:49:45] get into community? How do I find those people? How do I find, you know, that... And I [00:49:50] think that's what a lot of people struggle with is, is just that again, it's like, it's, it's like, it's, it's easy enough to [00:49:55] say like, I mean, you know, the average American male has less than two friends today, meaningful [00:50:00] friends. And like that's alarming, and the reality is just like how do we [00:50:05] punch back on that? Um, there's a, there's a longer answer to that, [00:50:10] but I mean, arguably, first of all, pray. Second of all is, [00:50:15] is that perhaps, you know, like I think that I heard it best said this way is that, [00:50:20] um, is that God designed love [00:50:25] by spelling it T-I-M-E. [00:50:30] And the thing is, is, is that again, how we and who we spend time with, why we [00:50:35] spend time with them. Uh, and then the thing is, is, is that the idea of, [00:50:40] uh, going to, um... Do you read "The Go-Giver" Hugh? Hugh Hornsby: Oh, absolutely. [00:50:45] Love that Nick Alter: book. Yeah. I, I, I think, I think the answer to that's probably somewhere kind of along the, the [00:50:50] pathway of when we look at, you know, like, I mean, obviously there's biblical, that, that, you know, [00:50:55] you can just read the Bible and, um, just, just read the, um, you know, uh, [00:51:00] Gospel of John, for example, and, or, uh, and, and just read the Gospels, and you'll get that too. [00:51:05] But I think that if you look at something like the, the, "The Go-Giver" is probably [00:51:10] the answer to that. But that would be the question that I would ask. Hugh Hornsby: That, that is awesome. Man, community is everything. We're [00:51:15] actually building a mastermind, and you guys, everybody will hear more about that, but it's [00:51:20] more in what Nick's talking about. And, uh, the bottom line is I just wanna [00:51:25] say, Nick, thanks for spending time with me. Thanks for making this world a [00:51:30] better place. And thanks for coming up with a system, a framework, [00:51:35] because a lot of people can say, "Okay, this is what needs to be done," but the framework [00:51:40] that you came up with obviously is very heart-driven, and it's something that you're doing to, to [00:51:45] really give back. So I wanna say congratulations for that, and thanks for the new friendship, [00:51:50] and, uh, look forward to having more conversations with you. And thanks for being a [00:51:55] part of the Blue Collar Smart community. Nick Alter: Thanks, man. Really enjoyed [00:52:00] it so much. Thanks, guys.