Gregory Bourgond and the Cement Lion That Set the Course

BCS - ep 14 Dr Greg Bourgond - correct spelling ​[00:00:00] Hugh Hornsby: [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] [00:00:25] [00:00:30] Welcome. This is Hugh Hornsby to share a new podcast called Blue Collar [00:00:35] Smart: Built Different, Underdog Proven, and Trades Tested, a podcast for [00:00:40] people and through people. Recently, somebody asked me, "Hugh, why did you name your [00:00:45] podcast Blue Collar Smart?" And I went on to tell them a little bit about my story.[00:00:50] I fell off a swing set at the age of 10, diagnosed with epilepsy, [00:00:55] a learning disorder. In the ninth grade, my teacher tried to put me into special needs. [00:01:00] I realized then that I had to look at the world from a different set of eyeglasses, [00:01:05] and so for years I would tell people that I was blue-collar smart. Since that time, I've [00:01:10] turned around or built up over 10 companies all based on people, and today [00:01:15] I got a podcast named Blue Collar Smart, and that podcast [00:01:20] is for those people that look at the world through a different set of [00:01:25] eyeglasses. I'm excited today to have a good friend of mine, Dr. Greg [00:01:30] Bourgond Dr. Greg, welcome. To tell you a little bit about Dr. Bourgond, [00:01:35] he's an amazing person. He started at a young age when his [00:01:40] parents had a divorce, and he tells the story about hugging a lion, and then moving [00:01:45] on into the military with the Navy and going into Navy intelligence. [00:01:50] He created the Heart of Warriors Minis- Ministries in [00:01:55] Minnesota, and he is a C.S. Lewis visiting scholar [00:02:00] And everywhere in between, Dr. Bourgond has truly made a [00:02:05] difference. Today, he's gonna tell you a little bit about how faith changed his [00:02:10] life, and he's also gonna talk about his new book, The Winner of Your [00:02:15] Life: If You're Not Dead, You're Not Done. He'll talk a little bit [00:02:20] about the four seasons of life, and he will also say that we're [00:02:25] all in this together. Dr. Bourgond, I am excited to have [00:02:30] you. Can't wait to hear a little bit about your journey. Can you tell us a little bit today [00:02:35] about this long journey that you've been on for years? Dr Greg Bourgond: Well, you know, when somebody, Hugh, looks at my [00:02:40] resume, they either conclude I'm schizophrenic or eclectic. I prefer the latter. You know, so [00:02:45] much of our life, I'm 78 years of age, I am in the winter of my life, but when you look at my [00:02:50] resume, some of the things I planned and some of the things I didn't plan. Life [00:02:55] happens in between plans. But it forms a, a discernible [00:03:00] pattern. It's almost as if God takes you up in this imaginary helicopter, [00:03:05] you look over the topography of your life, and you finally come to the conclusion, [00:03:10] "Ah, that's what he was doing." So I have a, a, a [00:03:15] varied background. I was in the military for 29 years. I retired as a naval [00:03:20] intelligence officer. I stayed in the Navy 29 years to see if I liked it. And, um, [00:03:25] but I've had other responsibilities. I worked in the black buildings at Hugh- Hughes [00:03:30] Aircraft Company. I, I trained ships in anti-submarine warfare around the world for another [00:03:35] company. I even became a general manager of a dealership to prove that you could be a [00:03:40] Christian and sell cars at the same time, and it's not an oxymoron. Um, [00:03:45] and, um, I've been involved in, in other businesses as well as the [00:03:50] church. I was an executive pastor of large churches. I was a vice president of [00:03:55] a seminary here in St. Paul for 14 years. And I've had [00:04:00] this amazing journey that God's taken me on that's kind of formed who I am [00:04:05] today. And in addition to that, I teach graduate courses at University of [00:04:10] Northwestern. I mentor men and women in terms of their [00:04:15] career. We raised four grandsons who are all doing well, so they were my, [00:04:20] uh, Petri dish for much of what I've learned along the [00:04:25] way, and they've turned out so well. Just so proud of them. But, um, I've had [00:04:30] this amazing experience in my life, um, you know, working for different [00:04:35] companies. I've been in commercial businesses, the defense industry, the military. I've been [00:04:40] in education. I've been in, uh, graduate education. Been in, [00:04:45] um, even, uh, uh, you know, church work as well, but as the seminary, which is [00:04:50] a graduate educational experience. I've got two doctorates and, [00:04:55] um, didn't get them to have letters put next to my name. It's just the best way in which [00:05:00] I learn. So I've had this amazing life, and I'm living out right now at [00:05:05] 78 years of age, going full bore. I have this mandate, Hugh. My [00:05:10] wife laughs at it a little bit. She understands it, but she always adds a little quip at the end. I have this [00:05:15] mandate, and I'm gonna crash through the gates of heaven utterly exhausted, having expended [00:05:20] everything on the field of engagement. Then my wife will chirp up and say, "Yeah, and there's gonna be a couple angels [00:05:25] exhausted too and glad you're home." Hugh Hornsby: It's funny you say that because I was looking at [00:05:30] all your accolades, and I'm like, "There's no way I'm gonna be able to remember all of this." I met [00:05:35] you, and it was "This is one busy person." Dr Greg Bourgond: Well, I get to do all the [00:05:40] things I love to do. You know, uh, I, I remember when I was in the workforce, [00:05:45] um, that, uh, especially at, in the 14 years I was at the [00:05:50] seminary, I remember at the seven-year mark, I went into the provost office said, "I have to [00:05:55] resign." And he says, "Why is that?" And I said, "You know, I've got this [00:06:00] reputation that I can solve these intractable problems, and so I'm getting people coming [00:06:05] to my office from all four academic units here at, at the university, [00:06:10] uh, asking me to help them. And so my plate is full of the things I have to do, [00:06:15] and very little time to do what I love to do." And I said to him, I [00:06:20] said, "You know, the only thing I have control over is the ratio, because there'll always be things you [00:06:25] have to do to do what you love to do." So I chose the [00:06:30] ratio of 70/30. And I told him, I said, "You know, if I'm not involved in [00:06:35] 70% of the things that give me life and for which I'm wired and which I've had [00:06:40] experience in, which I've seen some, um, positive results from, [00:06:45] um, and only investing in 30% of the things I have to do to do what [00:06:50] I love to do, I'll just have to move on." Well, to his credit, one week later he comes back. [00:06:55] He rewrote my whole job description to fit that 70/30 profile. Hugh Hornsby: That's, that's [00:07:00] amazing. Can we jump back a little bit further in your life? [00:07:05] Because I know you grew up in Michigan. Was there something that happened to [00:07:10] you when you grew up that really influenced you to [00:07:15] really start to become the person that you are today? Dr Greg Bourgond: Well, there's, you know, there's tragedies in [00:07:20] people's lives and there's, uh, wonderful things to celebrate. In my particular [00:07:25] case, um, it would happen at 12 years of age. I grew up in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan, which is the Upper [00:07:30] Peninsula. Um, my favorite time of the year is winter, which [00:07:35] my wife thinks I need counseling for because she's from Florida. [00:07:40] And, um, but at 12 years of age my parents went through a divorce, and I had [00:07:45] to appear before a judge, and they... I had to pick which parent to live [00:07:50] with. And I loved them both, and I was speechless. And I remember the judge pointing his finger at me and saying, [00:07:55] "Hurry up, son, we haven't got all day." And so I blurted something [00:08:00] out and I ran out and there were these two cement lions on the top of the stairway going down to the [00:08:05] street. I remember at 12 years of age throwing my arms around that lion [00:08:10] and vowing no one would ever control my life again. Now, this was before I knew [00:08:15] Christ. And so that set me on a path of absolute commitment [00:08:20] and focus of anything that I did. That included my Navy career. [00:08:25] I, I went through the ranks rather rapidly. I was a E8, a senior chief. The highest you could [00:08:30] go was E9. Uh, in 11 years, I got out for a short period of [00:08:35] time while I was pursuing my education, went back in as a direct commission officer, started [00:08:40] at the bottom rung of that ladder, and finally retired as a lieutenant commander in, [00:08:45] in the year 2000. But that transitional moment at that [00:08:50] lion, that cement lion on that stairway, changed my life.[00:08:55] At ti- at the time, it felt like a tragedy, but I think that it [00:09:00] just changed the whole direction and focus and intentionality and purpose of [00:09:05] what I wanted to become. Because up until that time, nobody thought I was gonna amount to anything [00:09:10] And, um, so I was bound and determined I was [00:09:15] going to change that formula Hugh Hornsby: Well, congratulations on that. And not every child [00:09:20] takes the direction that you did. Is there something that you can say to those kids out [00:09:25] there that maybe something's happened that they need to look at the world a little differently? Dr Greg Bourgond: First of [00:09:30] all, none of us come into this world as a mistake or a coincidence [00:09:35] or a happenstance. Um, you were on the heart of God before you ever [00:09:40] came to be. And God is, uh, not bound by time, [00:09:45] but He formed you in your mother's womb. It says in scripture that He superintended your [00:09:50] formation in your mother's womb. He knew you before you ever were. He set the number of days you'd walk this earth. [00:09:55] He gave you the talents that you had, even though they might be dormant in your life right now. [00:10:00] Um, that personality temperament will, will, uh, uh, grow and, and, [00:10:05] and, uh, manifest itself in marvelous ways, and He puts a sense of eternal in [00:10:10] you. So even though He's not bound by time, He chooses to enter time. He chose the time in which [00:10:15] you'd come into this world, to whom you would be born to, and how long you would be [00:10:20] living. And what you do with that time is so important. So [00:10:25] no matter what somebody tells you, you have God's potential in you that needs to be [00:10:30] unwrapped, and you need to do that in order to realize what God [00:10:35] designed you to be and do. For some unfathomable reason, for those of us who are believers, [00:10:40] He's chosen us to facilitate His redemptive purposes in a fallen world So [00:10:45] God's not finished with you yet. The world might tell you something else, but your creator [00:10:50] is telling you something new Hugh Hornsby: It's a hard thing to believe when you're a child. [00:10:55] Fortunately, I had mentors that helped me through some of the challenges that I [00:11:00] had. Let's get back to where we were before. You went through life, [00:11:05] obviously you found Christ at some point. And that's become a big, big part [00:11:10] of what you stand for today. When did all that happen? Dr Greg Bourgond: Well, that's [00:11:15] interesting. Uh, I grew up in a Roman Catholic home, Hugh. I went to a parochial school [00:11:20] for eight years, and one of the things that I appreciated most about those eight [00:11:25] years in a parochial school is I was taught about the majesty of God, but I didn't have a [00:11:30] personal relationship with Him. I've never forgotten that. Oh, when Debbie and I [00:11:35] got married, this was back in 1969, February 22nd, 1969. [00:11:40] This Presbyterian minister gave us a, a [00:11:45] Bible, and I had never read the Bible before. So I opened up the box. I always... You know, one [00:11:50] of the things that, that God has placed in me is this insatiable curiosity. [00:11:55] So I opened it up, took it out of the tissue paper, and read about three-quarters of it, and I [00:12:00] put it back in the box. And I'm living proof that God's word doesn't return void, [00:12:05] because after that, Debbie and I experienced the loss of four [00:12:10] babies. We lost twins and two singles. And just before I left for [00:12:15] Vietnam, Debbie became pregnant again. So I went to Vietnam shaking my [00:12:20] puny little fist in the face of God, thinking He was going to take this child, too. [00:12:25] Seven months later, off the coast of Recife in Brazil, we were heading home [00:12:30] on the eastern seaboard. I got a radio message I had a baby girl. [00:12:35] And my wife hadn't seen me in seven and a half months. So I hopped in when [00:12:40] we finally got to Puerto Rico, released me. I flew into, um, Miami. [00:12:45] Debbie was still in the hospital in South Miami. I rented a car. She had no idea I was coming in. [00:12:50] Went to the... Well, that was before they would stop you going up to the floors, and I went up to the third floor [00:12:55] just as they were carrying our daughter out. And I stopped the nurse and I said, "I want to hold my [00:13:00] child Six months later, Debbie had dragged me to [00:13:05] a Baptist church twice. I had heard the gospel. I felt I didn't need it. I belonged to the privileged [00:13:10] class, you know? Um, uh, and so, um, [00:13:15] but one night I walked into my daughter's bedroom. This was six months later. She was [00:13:20] sleeping peacefully, and I was thinking what a tremendous gift from God she was, [00:13:25] and immediately this phrase came through my mind. Not oddly, it was a phrase [00:13:30] that I found out later was scriptural, and it said to me, "My gifts are meant to lead you to [00:13:35] repentance. My gifts are meant to lead you to repentance." I dropped to my knees in the middle of [00:13:40] the night, in the dark of the night, with my daughter sound asleep, and gave my heart, [00:13:45] body, and soul to Jesus Christ August 11th, 1973. And from that [00:13:50] moment on, my life changed dramatically. My wife will tell you that it was a [00:13:55] Damascus road experience. I couldn't get enough of the Bible. I still have the Bible in my [00:14:00] bookcase that that Presbyterian minister gave me. Now it's got five pounds of ink in it [00:14:05] because I've read it so many times and it, it meant so much to me. But [00:14:10] even at that point, God placed men on my heart. Sometime, somehow, Hugh, I [00:14:15] knew that if I got to the heart of a man, I'd get to the heart of the family. [00:14:20] So I started discipling men. Didn't know what I was doing. Matter of fact, the first [00:14:25] Bible study I ever taught, I'm still there six months going to a Navy maintenance school. I invited the [00:14:30] whole class to my home for a Bible study. Never did one before. I thought that's what Christians are supposed to do.[00:14:35] So guess what book I taught on as a brand new Christian? Revelation. [00:14:40] Hal Lindsey's Late Great Planet Earth And over the course of time [00:14:45] with these men, only three showed up, but ultimately 17 of them did, and many of them came to [00:14:50] Christ. So from that point on, I started discipling men, which [00:14:55] ultimately, which is another story, ultimately led to me becoming the founder and [00:15:00] president of Heart of a Warrior Ministries. So that's how I came to Christ. Hugh Hornsby: I think that [00:15:05] ministry that you have, a lot of the athletes and a lot of the people that were there for the Fellowship of Christian [00:15:10] Athletes they seemed to all know you, like they had been through your course at one point or another. Is [00:15:15] that true? Dr Greg Bourgond: Or they knew somebody that had, yeah. Yeah, as a matter of fact, we just celebrated last [00:15:20] night, we did an orientation for a number of men because we're starting another season of [00:15:25] offering the four journeys. Um, and that marked the 30th year of our, our [00:15:30] ministry. What's, what's really interesting, Hugh, is that I never wanted to start a ministry. I ran [00:15:35] from it. Matter of fact, when, in 1991, when I was selected to be the [00:15:40] executive pastor of a large church in San Diego, I remember going to the pastor and saying to him, "There's young [00:15:45] men that are not getting into leadership roles in this church. The only way they [00:15:50] can is by surviving the gauntlet of service, and they get dumped in this transparent [00:15:55] cauldron called leadership. And because they're a known entity, we keep going back to them, and it ended up [00:16:00] being full of gray hairs. I want you to give me a mandate." I went to the senior pastor, said, "Give me a [00:16:05] mandate to go out into the congregation and find young men who have raw leadership [00:16:10] skills. Let me put them under my wing, and then give me the authority to put them into positions of [00:16:15] responsibility when I'm done with them." He gave me that mandate. I interviewed [00:16:20] 33 men. I only accepted 13. And I didn't accept them based on what they [00:16:25] said, because I knew God could change their theology. In a Naval [00:16:30] intelligence officer, I was watching their body posture and their [00:16:35] non-verbals. If they looked me in the eye, they leaned forward, if there was some sense of excitement [00:16:40] in their voice, they were in. If they looked away or folded their arms, [00:16:45] I knew I'd be spending all my time trying to convince them to do what they knew they had to do. [00:16:50] So I started with 13, then it grew to 40 or 50, [00:16:55] and, um, and at the end of that, 1995, [00:17:00] I was recruited to come back here to Minneapolis-St. Paul [00:17:05] to be the associate academic dean at Bethel Seminary. And I said [00:17:10] to God, now this might have been brash for me, it was my own Gideon's fleece. I said to God, I [00:17:15] said, "I could do this again, but I wouldn't know if it was you or me. I'm not gonna tell anybody what I've [00:17:20] done, Lord. You, you're going to have to convince me to do it again." Six [00:17:25] months here, I'm teaching a large Sunday school class, about 100 people, with a friend of mine, Gary [00:17:30] Gonzalez. Five weeks in, I said to the class, I, I [00:17:35] gave them a definition of legacy. I said, "Legacy is the aroma left in the [00:17:40] nostrils those God's called you to influence long after you're gone, and most of you [00:17:45] men are gonna leave a stench." Now, that's not how you normally end a Sunday school lesson. [00:17:50] So a guy followed me out. He was a very successful businessman. He was an [00:17:55] AT&T channel director, and he pulled me aside and he said, "Greg, I have three other men that have [00:18:00] been very successful in business but are young in the Lord. Would you go ahead and lead a [00:18:05] Bible study for us?" I said, "Absolutely not." And he says, "Well, why not?"[00:18:10] And I said, his name is Mark, he's been with me for 30 years now. [00:18:15] I said, "Mark, I know men, and they got stuff in their closet." I said, "I'm not talking psychobabble or [00:18:20] belly button gazing here, but I know men. Go back to those men. If they're ready to clean out that [00:18:25] closet, I'll give them my life." One year later, he comes back with nine [00:18:30] men that spent two years in my living room, where I took them through what's now become [00:18:35] the four journeys of Heart of a Warrior. And then God has just exploded this [00:18:40] ministry. It's in several states now, several countries we've been to. Uh, just [00:18:45] in one phase alone called The Compass, we've had over close to 1,200 men complete the journey. [00:18:50] But that was the formal start of Heart of a Warrior Ministry. I ran from it, [00:18:55] and God convinced me. He was gracious and merciful with my brashness of my [00:19:00] Gideon's fleece and convinced me to do it. So I go back to my board every year, [00:19:05] and I say, "It's time to roll up this sidewalk." And they say, "Greg, you don't [00:19:10] advertise, you don't market, but men keep coming. We can't close this ministry down." [00:19:15] 'Cause I've been under no illusions, Hugh. It's not about Greg Borgan. It's what God [00:19:20] is doing. Hugh Hornsby: That's amazing story. But, you know, trades right now are really a big [00:19:25] deal, and a lot of what's happening is that you have companies that are the [00:19:30] owners are aging out. And they go to sell the business, and they don't have anything to show for it, and they don't really [00:19:35] have anything to sell. And now they're getting ready to go into a whole different part [00:19:40] of life, and everything they've worked for has been very difficult. Do you have anything that you can share with [00:19:45] that group? Dr Greg Bourgond: Well, sometimes we move into the winter of our life, I've always classified the winter [00:19:50] of our life of being 60 or older, um, by design and [00:19:55] sometime, um, by tragedy. And what you've already [00:20:00] identified, Hugh, and what you know so well, that men have a tendency to get their identity by [00:20:05] what they do and not who they are. When what they do is taken away from [00:20:10] them, they don't know who they are because their identity is in what they [00:20:15] did, and now they're not doing it anymore. So they walk into this, this [00:20:20] stage of life thinking that, "Well, now I'm gonna have time to spend with my [00:20:25] grandchildren," only my grandchildren are adults and have their own families and doesn't wanna see Grandpa coming [00:20:30] around too often. Or we go ahead and say, "Well, I'm gonna do a lot of traveling." It's not [00:20:35] long before you travel to all the places you wanna be, and that's [00:20:40] done with. Or you say, "I'm going to improve my golf game," only to find out that your [00:20:45] handicap is not gonna improve at all because you are getting older. And then you settle [00:20:50] down, and you wonder, "What am I going to do with the rest of my life?"[00:20:55] Hugh Hornsby: Everything that's happened with us Hugh Dr Greg Bourgond: good or bad, has formed who we are [00:21:00] today. We have talents, we have natural abilities, we have acquired [00:21:05] skills, we have, uh, values that we live by, we have principles that [00:21:10] we've lived by. We've made, uh, some accomplishments. Maybe we've accomplished a lot [00:21:15] in our life. Why not take what we've done, the composite thereof, [00:21:20] move from shotgun to laser beam, and focus on what's eternal [00:21:25] by putting into action and leveraging what we have become because [00:21:30] of what we did for kingdom purposes, so that when God calls [00:21:35] us home and we appear before the judgment seat of Christ, as all Christians will, to [00:21:40] give an account for what they've done with what God's given them. It's not condemnation, it's [00:21:45] celebration. He's expecting an ROI, a return on His [00:21:50] investment. And so why not spend the last quarter, which I [00:21:55] call in my book The Winter of Your Life, to do something that eternally matters [00:22:00] based on your accomplishments, achievements, and maybe even in spite of the [00:22:05] tragedies or difficulties you faced in your life. God's not finished with you yet. Hugh Hornsby: I [00:22:10] love that. We probably jumped into the winter of our lives, but you [00:22:15] call it the four season. So it's almost like you're starting when you're younger, and then you go [00:22:20] through each one of those seasons. Dr Greg Bourgond: Yeah, let me just capsulize what, what I mean by those seasons. [00:22:25] Let, let's talk about the spring of your life. When we talk about the spring of our life, we move from [00:22:30] adolescence to young adulthood, for instance. Um, during that time, we face the [00:22:35] normal ups and downs of, of growing up, getting used to the changes in [00:22:40] our body, uh, discovering what we're good at, what we're not good at, [00:22:45] um, maybe even pursuing some education, learning to manage a myriad of decisions we wouldn't had [00:22:50] to make, uh, when we were younger, um, and then navigating the many [00:22:55] relationships that we encounter along the way But once we're finished with, [00:23:00] um, the spring of our life, we move into the summer of our life where we [00:23:05] finished our education, maybe it's college, maybe it's a trade school, [00:23:10] um, maybe it's something entirely different, but we're ready to transition. So we move into the [00:23:15] summer of our life where we seek to establish our careers, whether it [00:23:20] be in the trades or some professional endeavor. Uh, we start at the bottom, we hope to work [00:23:25] our way up to the top, and by whatever means. For many, this is a time where we [00:23:30] start our family and we start accumulating things around us, maybe a bigger home, [00:23:35] maybe that boat that we can go fishing on or whatever, RV. So it's an accumulation of things. [00:23:40] But then we enter into the fall of our life where we've [00:23:45] made our mark. We know what we're good at, we know what we're not good at, we know where we [00:23:50] shine and where we don't shine, and we've, um, leveraged [00:23:55] that. But accumulating things lost its allure, and now [00:24:00] we're looking for significance, purpose, status [00:24:05] and influence. And so that's the second part of our career. [00:24:10] Whether we're at the top of our organization or we're leading, [00:24:15] um, a work group of welders or whatever it might be, [00:24:20] um, we're focusing now on what's going to bring meaning and [00:24:25] significance to my life. And as we approach the sixties, [00:24:30] we start asking ourselves questions, "What am I going to do as I move into what [00:24:35] I call the winter of our life?" So when, when we talk about the winter of the [00:24:40] life, here's what, here's what I mean, and that's what the book is really about. Um, let me just [00:24:45] read a little bit of an excerpt, if that'd be all right with you. It might be very clarifying for people. "The [00:24:50] winter of our life is preceded by the growing desire to be in control of every [00:24:55] aspect of our lives. We want control over who, how [00:25:00] and what we spend our time on. We've worked our whole lives for this moment [00:25:05] and to enjoy the fruit of our labor. We look forward to activities we [00:25:10] put off during the ascent. We want to play more, travel more, learn more, [00:25:15] enjoy more. We want to do something that will benefit people that matter in our [00:25:20] lives." Others are thrust into forced retirement due to factors out of their [00:25:25] control. A company downsizes, a career is replaced by technology, the [00:25:30] economy takes a turn for the worse, negatively impacting our business [00:25:35] and destroying our dreams, or some other calamity, uh, some calamitous [00:25:40] event forces us prematurely to make a life change. During this period, [00:25:45] we often lose our sense of direction. Our identity up to this point, as I [00:25:50] mentioned earlier, was derived by what we did in the workplace. Now that we [00:25:55] are no longer a part of it, we wonder what we will do with the last quarter of our [00:26:00] life. So this book is about this last quarter of our life, the winter of our [00:26:05] life, and as Craig Groeschel has said in the subtitle of my book, "If you're not dead, you're not done."[00:26:10] When your sense of wellbeing is enjoyed by what you did, [00:26:15] the enjoyment dims quickly, just a couple more comments here, when, uh, what you [00:26:20] did you no longer do. Instead of bemoaning the loss of your prominence, [00:26:25] status, power, and significance, why not invest the time you have left [00:26:30] in matters of eternal consequence? So given your [00:26:35] God-ordained wiring, why not use it to further God's redemptive purposes [00:26:40] in a fallen world? Why not do something for others they can't do for themselves? So [00:26:45] the whole book is about that. It's broken up into three parts. [00:26:50] Um, the first part is now what, the second is [00:26:55] then what, and the last is so what. You know, Hugh, so many books I've read [00:27:00] that have been written by others about halftime or the last part of your life [00:27:05] are all about oughtness without enablement. I've never [00:27:10] been that way. I've always-- All of my books are not just about what God has called [00:27:15] us to be and do, but how to get there. So the last quar- the [00:27:20] last, uh, third of the book is all about what you need to do to prepare [00:27:25] for the winter and to engage the winter of your life. So that's how it's laid out. [00:27:30] But it's a book that's really, as you also mentioned, is probably for all ages. Either [00:27:35] you think consciously of preparing yourself for the winter of your life should you have [00:27:40] that much time that God's given you, be- as you move into the winter of your life so [00:27:45] you're not caught unawares. You don't go through what's been so-called this midlife crisis or [00:27:50] whatever, trying to find out, gee, what should I do, because you've made plans to do [00:27:55] something of significance in the winter of your life. Hugh Hornsby: It really resonates with me because I was [00:28:00] diagnosed with stage four cancer about two and a half years ago and my world's changed and I'm [00:28:05] cancer-free now, so that's, you know... Tha-thank God for that. But I remember- That's Dr Greg Bourgond: amazing ... [00:28:10] Hugh Hornsby: I mean, I, I remember, yeah, I, I remember sitting down there and sitting my [00:28:15] wife down and telling her, "Okay, I've got stage four cancer." And just in [00:28:20] tears and thinking that "This is not the way it's supposed to be." I felt like at the [00:28:25] time that was God's way of hitting me over the head to say, " you think that you've built all [00:28:30] these companies up, and now you're sitting here with your wife. There's something bigger for you." [00:28:35] So I was moving out of the company that I was with, [00:28:40] and I realized that the company was not who I was, [00:28:45] but at one point, that's what I felt like it was. And I think a lot of men, [00:28:50] and a lot of women I'm sure as well, go through that. And when they [00:28:55] break away from that, that spot that had created so much value for [00:29:00] them it becomes a pretty lonely place. Dr Greg Bourgond: Yeah, it is a very lonely place. [00:29:05] And, and so, you know, again, by, by doing what you did... And in Western [00:29:10] culture, I mean, we're taught in our educational systems and our trade schools and everything else to [00:29:15] find that dot on the horizon that you must seek. And so you come back to the [00:29:20] present, and you start making decisions and taking actions that lead you to what you [00:29:25] think is your ultimate purpose, only to find out when you climb that [00:29:30] mountain, the satisfaction lasts for about five minutes before you see around you there are [00:29:35] other mountains that are there to climb. And so the idea is, is to [00:29:40] understand that God may be preparing you for something today that doesn't [00:29:45] even exist And that he wants you to be faithful. I always talk to [00:29:50] my men about being fat Christians. FAT. God is looking for fat [00:29:55] Christians, the only time you don't have to go on a diet. Faithful, available, and teachable.[00:30:00] When you're faithful, available, and teachable, God will show you [00:30:05] mountains you've never seen before, valleys you've never crossed, rivers you've [00:30:10] never traversed, and it'll open up a whole new world. Because in our [00:30:15] culture, we're called to focus on the destination. In God's [00:30:20] economy, we're to engage in the journey, and He'll take us to multiple [00:30:25] destinations, places that will absolutely amaze us. Hugh Hornsby: And that's what's [00:30:30] happened with me. It's been the most amazing two and a half years [00:30:35] since I went through that. It's just been amazing. And there's a lot of founders that are on this [00:30:40] podcast and we talk about founder mentality a lot of times. And a lot of [00:30:45] founders they hit one goal, and they say, "Okay, it's just not good enough, so Let's move the bar, and let's go [00:30:50] hit it again." And yet a lot of those people have either hit the [00:30:55] wall and had to figure out something differently or just said, "Hey there's [00:31:00] only so much money that I really need. I need to do something else with it." I know that what I went [00:31:05] through was a pretty scary time. But I started having [00:31:10] conversations with the Lord. And when I started giving it up to Him my life just started [00:31:15] to change. Dr Greg Bourgond: Well, it's, it's a matter of who's going to be sitting on the throne of your life. I [00:31:20] mean, for many of us in, uh, in the extent of our careers, we've been on the throne. [00:31:25] And we come to realize that maybe the destinations we brought ourselves to because we're on the [00:31:30] throne weren't the destinations we'd hoped they'd be. Or maybe some of them are, [00:31:35] but they lack the kind of longstanding [00:31:40] sustainability of meaning and significance for us they once held. And all [00:31:45] of a sudden we see that while these were important, I did accomplish a lot with my [00:31:50] life, it provided this amazing life I have right now, but I need to [00:31:55] redirect my efforts now. I need to refocus them and to help [00:32:00] people that haven't had the opportunities I've had to be given the opportunity [00:32:05] I've had. I'm gonna do everything I can to facilitate that [00:32:10] journey, either as a sage on the stage Or a guide by the [00:32:15] side Hugh Hornsby: I thank that the message that you're sending is gonna be one that helps them. If they wanna get ahold of [00:32:20] your book what can they do, Dr. Bourgond? Dr Greg Bourgond: Yeah, there's-- it's actually, uh, 40 [00:32:25] distributors have it, but they can go to amazon.com. Uh, they can go to [00:32:30] Barnes & Noble. Um, they can call me directly or see me directly [00:32:35] or write me, um, and I'll, you know, uh, I'll send them, [00:32:40] uh, a book. They can pay for it and I'll send them the book. But it's, it's [00:32:45] available, and it's, it's selling quite well. It's kind of shocked me. You know what's interesting, Hugh, of all [00:32:50] the books, all the books that I've written, I never wrote them to, to sell them. [00:32:55] Primarily, this was the my- main reason I wrote them. I wanted my family, [00:33:00] my daughter, my six grandchildren, my four [00:33:05] great-grandchildren, to know what Papa believed and what he valued, and how he [00:33:10] tried to live his life, so that they would have something in written form [00:33:15] to help guide their own life as they navigate an ever-darkening world. That's [00:33:20] why I wrote it, and that's why I, I actually dedicated this book, "The Winter of Your [00:33:25] Life" to my eighth grade students, because I wanted to leave them some guidance. And as I [00:33:30] said, the last part of the book, nine things that you can do, a [00:33:35] preparation list, if you will, for preparing for and engaging the winter [00:33:40] of your life. So I'm hoping that people who read the book understand [00:33:45] the background because of it, um, what it was, why it was brought about, and most [00:33:50] importantly, what they can do to leverage their wiring and what they've learned [00:33:55] along the way. You know, when I was teaching leadership at a number of schools, [00:34:00] I used to tell my students that leadership competencies may be the [00:34:05] tools of effective leadership, but character has always been the power of it.[00:34:10] I can take somebody, for instance, who has a natural ability in something, [00:34:15] give them a process, a procedure, a methodology, a tactic, a strategy, [00:34:20] and they'll implement it and it'll produce results. They'll be linear and additive. [00:34:25] But when you take anybody, whether they're a reluctant leader, a born [00:34:30] leader, or a taught leader, teach them a process, a procedure, a [00:34:35] methodology, a tactic, a strategy, or whatever, against the backdrop of their [00:34:40] character, the results are no longer linear and additive. They're exponential and [00:34:45] logarithmic, because your character will always inform what you [00:34:50] do And so, you know, at this stage of our life, [00:34:55] in the winter of our life, we've learned a lot along the way. We've been beaten up by life. We've had [00:35:00] some failures. We've had some successes. But who you are [00:35:05] matters more than what you do. I remember a friend of mine, Neil Anderson of Freedom in Christ Ministries, saying, "It's [00:35:10] not what you do, Greg, that determines who you are. It's who you are in [00:35:15] Christ that will determine the quality of what you do." I've never forgotten that, Hugh. [00:35:20] And so that's what I train all of my men in Heart of a Warrior to understand. Hugh Hornsby: I love that. [00:35:25] So when I was a kid, I was diagnosed with epilepsy. The ninth grade teacher tried [00:35:30] to send me to special needs, and every time I would come home my mother would, [00:35:35] say "Hugh, take 15 minutes for a pity party." And then she'd give me a pad [00:35:40] and a pen, and she'd tell me to go upstairs and she said, "Okay, write down what you're gonna [00:35:45] do about it and, what is it that you want, and then come down and tell me what type of action you're gonna [00:35:50] take." So with everybody, Dr. McLendon- You had Dr Greg Bourgond: a great mother, Hugh. You had a [00:35:55] great mother. Hugh Hornsby: Yeah, she, she was pretty ama- And she used to put, she used to put the [00:36:00] Underdog books on my bed on a regular basis, making sure , that I was not gonna take a look at [00:36:05] epilepsy as anything but a, superpower. So my question to you [00:36:10] is- Oh, that's wonderful if, yeah, it was a pretty amazing mother. But if you had [00:36:15] a yellow pad moment that you wanted to share, what would that yeah, what would that yellow pad [00:36:20] moment be for the audience? Dr Greg Bourgond: The first one is, is that God has a unique purpose for your [00:36:25] life. Ephesians 2:10 talks about the fact that God has ordained a [00:36:30] purpose for your life in advance, which means he determined it before you ever came to be.[00:36:35] And the only way that you can understand what that life purpose is is when you tune your [00:36:40] heart to the heart of God. That's one thing I would say. The second thing is, [00:36:45] especially in Western culture, Hugh, nobody cares what you have to say. [00:36:50] Until they observe how you live. And if you live a life of [00:36:55] integrity and honor, authenticity, um, and authenticity, [00:37:00] people will ultimately wanna hear what you have to say, even if they disagree [00:37:05] with you. Why? They cannot get past a life well lived. They can deconstruct [00:37:10] your life maybe, or your belief system or your faith, but what they can't argue [00:37:15] with is a life that's lived consistently, coherently, and congruently in one [00:37:20] direction over an extended period of time. They all admire it, but [00:37:25] they don't wanna do what it takes to get there. It's only when you tune your heart to the heart of God [00:37:30] do you find out who God really designed you to be. Not what the culture told you you were going [00:37:35] to be, not what some advisor or mentor told you you're going to be or you should be, [00:37:40] but what God intended for you to be. The last thing I would say is, is [00:37:45] that, and it's, it's actually in my book, this, this whole process of [00:37:50] preparing for the winter of your life. Um, quick- I'll, I'll just run through them. Would that be okay? [00:37:55] Hugh Hornsby: Yeah, absolutely. Dr Greg Bourgond: First one is to seek God's counsel. What have you [00:38:00] heard from the Lord? What have your prayers yielded? I mean, have you received a personal [00:38:05] vision from God? How has God spoken to you in response to your prayers? So number one, seek [00:38:10] God's counsel. Number two, consult trusted observers. What [00:38:15] advisors have you consulted? What have they told you? What wisdom have they imparted to [00:38:20] you? What specific guidance have you embraced? How do you intend to apply [00:38:25] their advice? What's proven to be true based on what they've told you? Number [00:38:30] three, assess your spiritual well-being. What is the condition of [00:38:35] your heart? What beliefs need alignment with the heart of God? What core [00:38:40] values will you adhere to? What is your biblical worldview? What motivates you or [00:38:45] compels you to act? So that's number three, assess your spiritual well-being. Number four, [00:38:50] evaluate your portfolio. What are your strengths? What are your [00:38:55] limitations? What are your weaknesses? What is your unrealized potential? [00:39:00] How can you learn from your current involvements, or what can you learn from your current [00:39:05] involvements? So number four, evaluate your portfolio. Number five, conduct a giftedness [00:39:10] audit. What are your natural abilities? What are your acquired [00:39:15] competencies and skills? You gotta be objective about this. What have you achieved so far in [00:39:20] your life? How will your giftedness be applied in the winter of your life? [00:39:25] Number six, determine your God-given destiny. What is your personal life [00:39:30] mandate? What awe-inspiring experience have you- What [00:39:35] indirect destiny processing have you received? What providential circumstances have you [00:39:40] enjoyed? What blessings from actions you've taken have you seen? Number [00:39:45] seven, research and investigate possible opportunities. What potential [00:39:50] opportunities resonate with your calling and your wiring? If done, [00:39:55] what did your needs assessment reveal? What can be leveraged for what you're doing now for [00:40:00] the next chapter of your life? Number eight, prepare a plan. [00:40:05] What will be included in your action plan? What must be accomplished before you can [00:40:10] execute your plan? What is your timeline for executing your plan? And the final [00:40:15] one, Hugh, execute your plan Have you, um, how have [00:40:20] you created margin for your plan? What networks have you identified that support [00:40:25] your action plan? Like your network, for instance. You, you'd be good for them to tie into your [00:40:30] network. How do you intend to execute your plan? How will you evaluate the [00:40:35] execution of your plan? And how will your plan be revised based on your evaluation? [00:40:40] So those are some practical things you can do to be sure [00:40:45] that the last part of your life is the most significant part of your life. Hugh Hornsby: Most [00:40:50] people when they listen to this and they say, "Boy, I wish he would ask one more question." If there was one more [00:40:55] question that I should have asked that I didn't ask, what would that one have been, Dr. Bourgond? Dr Greg Bourgond: Well, [00:41:00] one is don't believe the criticism necessarily unless it's [00:41:05] justifiable and constructive. That only you know at the core of your being [00:41:10] who you could be, who you may not be at the moment, who [00:41:15] you want to be, and to understand that you're created for a [00:41:20] purpose, and that seek out that purpose and [00:41:25] become who you've been created to be, and you'll [00:41:30] realize dreams beyond your wildest imagination. They'll go beyond [00:41:35] anything you could possibly envision at the moment. Hugh Hornsby: I think we're gonna end it on that. Become [00:41:40] the person that we're supposed to have become. And I think when we're moving towards that [00:41:45] person, that the person you're supposed to become, the world changes. I just [00:41:50] wanted to say thanks for the friendship. What a great opportunity that I had to meet you in [00:41:55] Minnesota. I can't wait to, to see you again, and I just wanna say that from the Blue [00:42:00] Collar Smart community, thank you for making such an incredible difference. Dr Greg Bourgond: [00:42:05] It's been my honor, Hugh, and it's been my honor to meet you. You have an incredible life. [00:42:10] You've come from such adversity, and you've risen above it, so I honor you for that. Hugh Hornsby: Well, [00:42:15] thank you and I didn't get to hug the, the lions, but we all have a lion [00:42:20] that we're hugging out there. And so whatever that is, just realize we've got a [00:42:25] story that we started with, and it's our opportunity to look at it from a [00:42:30] different perspective and go out and just make this world a better place ​[00:42:35] [00:42:40] [00:42:45] [00:42:50] [00:42:55] [00:43:00] [00:43:05]