Randy Chaffee on Why Relationships Beat Transactions in the Trades

you're probably capable of a lot more than you think you are, a lot more than a lot of people think you may be capable of. And I think you need to, to always be investigating who you are, what you are, why you are, and, and be willing to make those changes. And I think that's the biggest thing. And it's back to my adaptability thing, but you got to be willing to change who you are, not as a person, not as your core beliefs, but I can change some things on how I look at things today. Because whatever we think about that we just talked about that we did coming out of COVID, and especially with AI and what it's doing, three years from now is going to be totally different than today. Most trade leaders are working harder than ever and still stuck. there's a better way to compete. And it starts with people. This is Blue Collar Smart, hosted by Hugh Hornsby, 40-year trade executive, industry award winner, and the only media voice built for leadership on both sides of the trade. Every episode, one truth, one action, one step forward. Welcome to Blue Collar Smart. Hello, my name's Hugh Hornsby. I'm here to tell you about a new podcast called Blue Collar Smart. Built different, underdog proven, and trades tested. When I started thinking about doing this podcast, I kind of felt like, what would I name it? And when I called it Blue Collar Smart, I called it that because when I was a kid, I was diagnosed with epilepsy, and I had to learn how to look at the world from a different set of eyeglasses. So for years, I used to call myself Blue Collar Smart. I didn't necessarily fit in everybody else's box, but what I did is I learned how to do things a little bit differently. And this podcast is to take a look at those people, those underdogs, our trades, our business, our wholesalers, and really take a look and shine on that part of the industry and the opportunities there are for so many other people. And so today I've got my really good friend, Randy Chaffee. Randy has been in the industry for a tremendous amount of years. He has an Amazon bestseller book. He is an advocate of the industry in so many ways, and not only the old side part of the industry, but how the industry is moving forward. Randy, you want to tell them a little bit about yourself and how we kind of got connected and your passion for this industry. Hey, Hugh, it's great to be on. Thank you so much. And congratulations on the new podcast. This is going to do some really good stuff for a lot of great, a lot of people, a lot of great people. So congratulations. I compliment you on it. I watched a version just the other day and I thought it was great. So well done. And it's an honor to be on and I thank you. As you said, I use the term four plus decades in the industry. I'm basically from the building materials world, metal roofing components, post-train building components, some steep slope residential and commercial roofing components. I'm a manufacturer's rep by nature. That's what I do. That's my day job. I do some podcasting and some writing and some other things, But the day-to-day world is outselling to the suppliers that supply the trades. And, you know, I grew up on a small farm in mid-Michigan and worked with my dad, where I learned 98% of what I think I know was from him as a good salesman. But he was a relationships guy. And so, you know, I grew up on the farm. We started a farm business or he started a farm business selling building materials. And that's where I got started. And I swung the hammer and ran the drill gun and hand cut steel and did all those things in early age. Loved it. But I figured out that my real world, my real love was in the sales world or the world of sales, I should say. I enjoy helping people be successful. And I think as a sales guy, that's what we do or that's what you should be doing. And it's the money's important. So let's talk about that farm a little bit, because on our podcast, number one, we had Marlon Mueller, which is a person I'd love to introduce you to. And Marlon was about, he helped save the family farm. And then he figured out finances. When we talk about farmers and we talk about people that are very blue collar in a lot of ways, they're the ones that kind of get their, their, um, you know, get everything dirty and figure it out on their own. Is, was that a, um, was that a, a foundation for you moving forward to where, where, where you are now? Oh, a hundred percent. You don't get much more, uh, uh, trades or blue collar than the farm. Right. And we were a good old cash crop farm, had a few cows and a few pigs, um, maybe a goat or two. I don't know what else we had, but, but, but we're a cash crop guy, small farm. And I watched my dad from an early age work hard, hard, hard every day, whether it's cold or hot rain or, or sunshine. And I saw the work ethic and, uh, I loved it. I love everything about that work ethic that you learn on the farm. And, and, uh, so that's probably been a big draw to me working on the supply side now. And as, as a sales guy, uh, but working with the trades, because there's no more honorable people out there, right? Then the folks that are out there getting their hands dirty every day, making things happen and, and, uh, building America literally. And, uh, it's, it's, it's been, but yes, I, to, to answer your question, a lot of what I do, a lot of what I believe, uh, is, is drawn from those early days on the farm, you know, as an only child. So my dad was not only my dad, but my buddy, my best friend and, and my mentor, my compadre, I mean, everything. So it was, uh, it was, it was a great, it was a Great life, great way to grow up. So if you were having a conversation with somebody that's looking to go either in the trades or into the wholesale business or into any of the building businesses, what type of conversation would you be having with that person, Randy? Well, I would tell them the first thing I believe is if you get into it, you got to get into it for the right reason. Of course, we all want to make money. And that's an important part of what we do and a part of the reason we do it, a big part of the reason we do it. We need to get paid. But you got to love what you do and do what you love. That's a little statement I use often in things, and I really live it. I think you want to make a difference, and that's what you're doing with this podcast, Hugh. And I think if you go into the business to make a difference in the trade, you're making a difference in people's lives, whether it's doing a plumbing job, an electrical job, building a pole barn, doing a roof for somebody, you're making a difference in people's lives. and I think it's still coming back to relationships, not just, you can buy a roof from anybody. A lot of people can do a roof. Let's just use that example. But they're buying you, right? They're buying the person that's actually showing up in the pickup truck and his two or three guys. And if you set that example right out of the get-go that I'm here to be part of your life, it might be for three days, but I hope I can make your life a little bit better. That's where you win. And I would tell people, if you're doing it strictly, and I think this goes for any job, any career, if you're doing it 100% just for the paycheck, then you're living off your industry instead of in your industry. And I think that's a mistake. It's funny you say that because Wallace Waddles, you know, the science of getting rich. I don't know if you've ever read that book, but it's a pretty amazing book. But one of the things he says in there is that, you know, don't compete, create. You know, that, you know, if you're, and really that to me is that you run into the companies that are really all about the transaction and they're chasing everybody else. But the ones that figure out how to align and create are the ones that really separate themselves from everybody else. And usually those people are the ones that believe in people. You know, I have a people-based business philosophy on if we take care of people, then people take care of you. What are your thoughts about that, Randy? Oh, there's no doubt you. If you don't, you're constantly getting led down the rabbit hole of transactions. And you used the word a minute ago. We always have to have at the end of the day, the cash register needs to ring, right? Or none of us have a job. But, and I say that because I don't want, I talk a lot about the relationship part and I don't want people to misunderstand that, well, geez, Randy, at some point you got to sell something. Of course, I'm a sales guy. I love to sell stuff. I kind of like money. I like to earn a living. But if you're transaction based, then it's always just the lowest dollar. and the customer doesn't win, the salesman doesn't win, the manufacturer, supplier doesn't win, and the customer may think they win because they got the best number. But if they got the best number, that means I've probably had to leave something out or I'm not the best choice for you because usually the cheapest is not the best route for you as a customer. I always say live on price, die on price. That's exactly right. And really, I don't know, you know, we all probably failed a little bit when we were younger and we were trying to do better things. And but once I started to figure it out, once once I, you know, read Larry Wilson's book, you know, and about consultative selling, I was like, oh, that's it. You know, I'm here. I'm really here to serve. And and it's a long term play, not a short term play. that's that's when my life really started to change oh a hundred percent of you hundred percent that's why i love the the statement i made a minute ago live in your industry rather than off your industry if you're in it then it's long term and you do what's right for the customer what's right for yourself long term not just this transaction and uh it because this transaction is is every transaction is an outlier a little bit and on its own, right? It's either went well, went okay, or went great, but it's one transaction. You got to live just for that transaction. You got to live for the next one and the next one after, the referrals and stuff that you do five years from now not just what you do today I love that And spending 40 years in the same industry it like they say if you stayed here three years you probably going to stay here for the rest of your life But one of the things I wanted to ask you, because I was doing my homework on you. Oh, this is scary. And of course, we know each other pretty well, just because we watch each other. I've been on your podcast and we've talked. and one of the things that I've always done is to take care of the industry and when I take a look at founders and I take a look at people that are starting businesses a lot of times they feel like it is about the transaction tell tell me how you've invested in the industry and where what you think a founder needs to do well I think they really need to get involved in the industry And what I mean by that is get involved with the associations, serve on a committee, maybe get on a board of directors. When you go to trade shows and so forth, offer to speak, offer to do a presentation, write articles. I know you do a lot of writing. I might have seen your incredible face on a magazine here not too long ago, which is kind of a pretty big deal. But if you do those kind of things, you become a fabric of the industry rather than just a person just trying to make a buck. And if you take that approach, and you hit on it earlier, if you give, and I know this is an old adage, but I think maybe because we're old school to some degree. If you give without expectation, you get back way more than you ever give. I always have got weight in me and people all go, well, I did this trade show and I did all these things and I didn't get anything. Well, then you're short-sighted because, A, did you do everything you should have done and do it the right way? That's a separate conversation. But it's everything lives on. It's not just what you did today. It's what you do tomorrow. It's what you did yesterday. And if you just keep doing that and you keep doing right, you keep giving back, you get involved, that's where you're going to win the long game. And that's where you're going to pull yourself out of that rabbit hole of transactions. And you're going to be somebody that people want to deal with because you've built that. As Ben Gale III always says, and I love his statement, we've all heard all things being equal. People buy from who they know, like, and trust. And he adds, and feel safe with, right? And I love that addition to that because you want to demonstrate that things are going to go wrong sometimes. no matter what you do and do they trust Hugh? Do they trust Randy? That if something goes wrong, which it could, are they going to be there to take care of us? Is this the right decision? And see, if you do that, you win. And then again, you're out of the transaction game. And I don't want to confuse that statement with if I do all those things, I can have any price I want because I can't. There's still market conditions. You may pay me a little more for all those things. You're not going to pay me double or triple, right? I mean, there's still market conditions that come into play, but I guess what I'm saying is that I don't have to always look to be the bottom guy, the low guy, if I do all these other things. So if you're talking to a technician or if you're talking to a salesperson or you're talking to a founder, somebody building a business, and they were to ask Randy Chaffee, you know, I'm really struggling, really trying to figure out, you know, where I really fit in to this world. What would be the piece of advice? Let's say it's a young, struggling salesperson. What would be the piece of advice that you would give them to start building their Well, first they have to recognize that they are a brand. And I think every, every founder, every salesman, and I would challenge every technician, if you will, have a brand. It's the brand of Hugh, the brand of Randy, the brand of Billy Bob, right? It doesn't matter. And you have to, I don't want to say self-promote to the point that that's all you're doing, but I think you have to be upfront with the fact that you're not buying just a widget. you're buying a a a complete complex system from randy and i'm going to help you through every single phase of this operation not just sell you a widget because i think founders start out with i'm going to make this best widget ever and everybody's going to automatically buy it not necessarily if you don't tell people you have the best widget and you don't explain why that you have the best widget, but more importantly, what is that best widget going to do for me as the person looking to buy that? If I don't understand that, I don't really care what you say about how good that widget is, right? I want, I need you to help me understand why that's important to me. So I think as a young sales guy, buy into your brand. That's not to be such a self-promoter that you forget everything else. I'm just saying, and you build into that by what you do, not what just say. Don't just sit there and anybody can say, geez, I'm the best and I'm going to take care of you. Let's go back to that again. Cause my, my father-in-law was a general in the air force and he always used to say, and my dad used to always talk and they start talking about being a say do guy. And, uh, you know, so let's hit that because, you know, I think that that's a big part of success and that people get way too caught up in trying to hit the number. And the numbers are really important, but what they really need to do is to make sure that they're adding value on the other side. And that value, a lot of times, if people don't realize that the most important thing that they do is that they're selling themselves and delivering, that's a that's a big deal it is a big deal and and i think that's a great point here because i think as sales guys and i can speak to that more than anything else because that's what i've done forever is the first thing we're selling is ourselves not a product or service if if the customer doesn't the potential customer doesn't believe in us and doesn't believe we're here for their best interest, whatever widget we have to sell them is irrelevant. Because again, what I said earlier, every product I sell, there's a whole lot of competitors I have and they're great products and it's not going to fail you. So what do I have different? Is you're buying from Randy. And I want to bring that Randy factor to the table because see, if you do that, as good as anybody may be, you can't beat me at being me. And so if I can get you to understand that I'm going to take care of you, I'm your guy, I have the right combination of expertise, I have the right combination of connections, I have the desire to help you and to make this right for you, and I care more about the long-term effect of this purchase than just the dollars, then that's where you're going to win. And so the biggest advice to cut right to the point for a sales guy is quit thinking you're just selling product or services because you're selling a lot more than that. Because if you don't, you're back to the rabbit hole we talked about at the beginning, right? You're just another transaction, which means you're one of five guys quoting and whoever gets the best price wins. And in that case, you never win. Usually with that, I found, Hugh, if you get into those battles, even if you get the job, you lost because you probably gave up margin someplace you didn't have to. Because you got caught up. And you know what? If you're giving up margin and it's becoming a price scenario, you're going to lose it on price the next time with somebody else. Exactly. And let's kind of turn to some of the things that you see going on in the industry. What we see a lot on our side, especially on the trades, there were over 800 to 900 trade companies bought by private equity last year. The industry, people is the biggest challenge for PE companies coming in, trying to retain those people. and then one of the biggest, a bigger part of the industry is that our industry is aging out. And so a lot of those skills are being lost. And so it's another people's side. And it's something that we see on private equity. And a lot of people look at private equity as a bad thing. I don't necessarily look at it that way. I think private equity is a good thing where it makes sense, but there's different types of private equity. What do you see going on? Because I know you're one of the biggest thing that Randy's always talked about is that you always talk about hybrid sales, how the digital side of it today is almost like people need to catch up with that side of it, but then also keep the relationship side. So I'm just wondering what you can say to our viewers right now on your thought process of the changing of the industry and the changing of the guard? Well, thank you. That's a great question. And yeah, I do love the hybrid concept. I grew up, you grew up in the old school way of fully relationships, all the things we've been talking about. And coming out of COVID especially, there was a big switch to everything digital. and a lot of people bought into the fact that we can do everything digitally. We can do it all with emails and texts and Zoom calls and team meetings and all those things. And there's a lot of good pluses to that, a lot of time savers to that. To me, it's better to jump on a Teams call where you can see face-to-face than jumping on a phone call. I agree with all that. But there's a high-dread middle ground someplace, which you still got to build that foundation of man of your word. I should say in today's world, a person of your word. I don't want to get off kilter here, but a person of your word, shall we say. And all the old school relationship things, but digital today is a force multiplier. And if we don't use it, you're going to fall behind because it doesn't matter. I told a group I talked with a while back at a little trade show. And I use the example of you could be a guy with 40 years experience building buildings in your community. And a young guy comes in with five years of experience. He goes out and gets testimonials. He's standing on the job sites with customers. He showing the crew riding into the sunset in the morning or the sunrise in the morning starting the building and he promotes himself well all over social media for example He just taken away a lot of the advantage that the old guy with four decades of experience has because he's out in front of these people. And where the other guy is relying word of mouth only, and I still think word of mouth is still top of game. But if you don't put that word of mouth out where the people are, and even people are ace here, look at us. I'm a little bit older than you, I think. But with that said, we're sitting here on a podcast today. We've talked on Zooms and Teams together, right? I was on three Teams calls this morning. I'm going to have another one when we're done today. So my point about that is if we don't use that technology that's available for the force multiplier that it is, you're still going to fall behind somebody maybe not as qualified, maybe doesn't have as good a product, and maybe not as good as you are at what you do because they're letting everybody out there know by the thousands, hey, maybe you ought to talk to Randy versus this other guy that may be four times better than I am, but he's talking or telling nobody. So I think we have to harness that instead of, and that's my hybrid version. And I agree. And I'm on a couple of AI boards, and I coach them heavily on, you know, being very aligned with what it is they're trying to do and to make sure that they're not, you know, that they're not replacing people, but they're replacing some of the mundane jobs that, you know, some of the salespeople have to do on a regular basis that don't create revenue. So, and, you know, you and I both probably went through the bag phone when it came around and the fax and all that technology. And every time something happened like that, you know, the world was going to fall apart. You know, but one of the things I also wanted to talk to you, Randy, is that you're a real advocate of bringing women into the to an industry that has typically been male dominated. You have you have a thought on that? Well, I do. My first response to that is, why wouldn't we? And I mean that facetiously maybe, but there's a lot of people think it's odd or maybe we should think about, my stance is, why wouldn't we be thinking about that? why in today's world I deal with so many incredibly talented women throughout the manufacturers that I represent, buyers of companies that are customers of mine. And I never see them as, wow, this woman is doing a great job in a man's world. I just see them as an equal. They're doing great. They're probably better than a lot of men would do. So I think we're missing the boat when we don't recognize it. But I think with that said, unfortunately, some things are what they are. And I think it's important for us guys, it's been in the industries a long time, to make sure we continue to support and help and mentor where they need it, women in the industry, because they're invaluable. And there's no reason whether it's I'll swing in a hammer or working in sales or working in production or working in senior management. There's absolutely zero reason that there should be anything but a positive with that. And I'm a big supporter of that. We actually in the American Supply Association in Hardy, we've seen a real large amount of women come in. What disappoints me more than anything else is that the people of color that still aren't in our industry and that really should be. And, you know, I'd like to be a real advocate of getting those people to start taking a look at our industry because it's just a great place. It's just really, it's really a great place to be. You know, Randy, one of the other things that I talk about is finances. and when we take a look at what's going on with colleges now and we take a look at people coming out of college, you know, unless you're a doctor and a lawyer, when you come out of college, you're coming out of college with $60,000, you know, just a tremendous amount of debt a lot of times and now all of a sudden you're almost doing a restart. We're finding, I spoke to the president of PHCC, Plumbing Heating Contractors Association. The average age today of people coming into the industry, it's about 25 years old into the trades. So that means they're leaving, they're coming out, and then they're figuring it out whether they go into the military or whether they're just figuring out how to go into the trades. And then they come into the trades. And the opportunity is that if you want to go into the trades, there's a good chance you're going to make about $100,000 a year. That's a big deal. But one of the things I think that I'm a real advocate for is not only having somebody come in and understand how to be a tradesman, but also understand the financial side of it and really want to go out of our way to teach those people not only a way to possibly build a business or become an entrepreneur, but also manage their own personal finances, which is something that we just haven't done a great job with in teaching people all the way through school. Just like to kind of get your feel on that. You know, taking the last part first, we don't do a very good job with that in schools, I don't think. you're right. You look at people that come out of college in the world of sports. Look at the guys that make absolute crazy money and they blow it all. Three years, five years later, 10 years later, they got no money left. But yeah, you make $5 million, $10 million a year. That's partially mentality and attitude probably, but some of it is, I don't think anybody ever in life actually taught them how to be a businessman, right? How to, how to manage that, how to set themselves up for life. But, but back to your original question, I think that if, if the trades, if we promote, and I'm a big believer in, I, I saw something the other day that I was going to copy and paste it, but I didn't, or save it, but that if we were to take away a bunch of money from the, the Harvard's of the world and put it into the trade schools, would you support it? And I say, hell yes, I would support it. Because like you said, for every person that is going to go, let's face it, if you're going to be an accountant or a lawyer or a doctor, yeah, you've got to go do that. But you hit a dead nuts 100 minutes ago, $60,000, $80,000, $100,000 in debt with a degree that you may not do anything with. You can't find a job that pays enough to pay that back in any kind of a reasonable time for him, or you go into the trades for a lot less cost to yourself, and you're out in a year or two and actually making a nice living. I think we don't promote that enough amongst our young kids. I think too much or too many schools still at the high school level, especially, if everything's college prep perfectly, we need it. Absolutely. I mean, if you're going to be a doctor, I hope you're in college prep as an eighth grader, right? Okay. But, but, but, but not everybody's that. That's not me. I'm not smart enough to do that. So I, I, I want to be, I want to make sure that we are, are teaching at the earliest level and promoting at the earliest level with these, with these schools. And that's where associations, trade associations, we're doing more that with some boards that I'm on, uh, to work with high schools, community colleges, helping them to understand that there's a whole group of people that can make a great living for themselves and their family. You can make a great living. And, and, um, you know, listen, my wife's a school teacher and I love her dearly. And, uh, but I don't think we teach in school the financial acumen. You know, we teach people to go out and get jobs and make money and pay their bills and do everything else. But I think that mindset gets overlooked, both in schools and in colleges. And I think it's an opportunity within the trades and what we're trying to do here to maybe to start almost a revolution to do something differently. And Marla Mueller, my good friend who was talking about the family farm said something the other day. And I'm just kind of wondering what you think, if you agree with him, he's like, you know, somebody came to me the other day and said, Hey, you know, if you give me a million dollars, I'd be great. He said, you know, what's great is that if I give you a million dollars, um, and you have a, uh, $50,000 a year mindset, you're going to go back down to $50,000 a year pretty quickly, which is kind of what you said about NFL athletes a lot of times. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot of ways of saying that, but he's spot on. You can't live a $200,000 lifestyle with a $50,000 mindset, right? You just can't. There's things you got to do if you want to get there and be there and stay there. And if you don't, you may have it for a minute, but then it goes away real quickly as we talk with the NFL and the NBA and everybody else. I mean, you think about it, how do you blow $50 million? But somehow over a period of a few years, they do, right? It's because they never was taught, they never learned, and they never earned, they didn't have the acumen, as you said, to figure out what they're supposed to do with that. because we don't teach you. Yeah. And, and I, I, I think that that's, I think with, with, um, what you're doing with your podcast and what I'm doing with my podcast, I think that's a message that we really want to send. Um, I think it's a great opportunity. Our industry is just an incredible opportunity to be a part of something that's, that's really special. Um, today we hear so much about the trades and, um, but we still talk about, um, you know, going in there and turning a wrench and doing some of that. And that's really important. But if we can talk about how the trades can help build, um, build people, I think that's a big deal. I just wanted to flip one more time over to what going on with PE and private equity Um I know you a big uh people um person and keeping people within the industry and keeping people so that we not turning people over Do you have an opinion that if you were having a conversation with a PE company or even a company that is expanding, but they're having a hard time keeping their people, what's the advice that you would give them? Well, I think my advice is if you're private equity and you bought a company that was reasonably profitable or had a reason to buy them in the first place, which I assume you did your homework. Why was they so successful to begin with? Because of their people. The most important thing you're buying is, in my opinion, is the people, the culture, the mindset, because products are products. We have some better, some worse, but we can R&D the better monkey wrench, right? But what you can't R&D very easily is the culture, the mindset, the experience, and the caring that comes from the people. So I think we need to be good at or better at cultivating those people, keeping them with us, right, and making sure that you don't lose the reason that this company was successful in the first place. And that's because of the people. People still, always the biggest asset you have, right? I still believe that. Buildings are buildings. Equipment's equipment. Products are products. All important, not knocking any of them. But if you don't have that experience and that mindset of wanting to serve the customer and also wanting to serve, I understand, the board of directors and wanting to serve management. But you have to find that happy medium. And if you don't have that, all of a sudden you start turning over people. And now the success formula that was there is changed at the least or at the minimum and maybe completely gone. so the other question i would have is that if you take a look at it from both sides and um there's a chapter in my book uh that's called um you know street smart versus corporate smart and basically it's the relationships and the street smart and everything that took to build the business the way that it is but all of a sudden um you know pe comes in or another company comes in and now they're starting to add all the systems to go with it. And you really need both, don't you think? Oh, there's no doubt. There's no doubt. And I think that people coming from a non-system based organization, and let's face it, there's a lot of companies that's done very well without systems, but they haven't been nowhere near as well as they could do with systems. So I think that as on the, and that's a great, great swing there, Hugh, because to the people that are involved in starting to work all of a sudden tomorrow for a PE, it's not all bad. There's not all, it doesn't have to be scary, different. You need to be, have an adapter's mindset and understand some things that are going to look different, feel different, smell different, taste different. But that doesn't mean it's bad. So you got to be open-minded to understand that sometimes systems, like you talked about earlier, serving on some AI boards, people get scared of AI. But if you think about it the right way, it's there to serve you and to help you be faster, quicker, better, more accurate, and not get wrapped up in the mundane stuff that you don't need to so you can do what you're best at. And I think with the same thing with systems with PE, let's face it, some of them you're not going to like, some of them are going to be different that you're not used to. But I think as an employee, whatever your position is, you got to have an open mind to it and say, look, there's a reason why this company, you're $40 million and this company that bought you is $2 billion. There's got to be some reasons why they got there, right? And they didn't get there without systems. Yeah, absolutely. And so I'm going to, as we kind of wrap this thing up, one of the questions that I always ask, so when my mom, you know, when I, when my mom used to, I used to come home and complain about getting cut or the teacher trying to send me to special needs or whatever it may be, my mom would look at me and say, hey, you've got 15 minutes for a pity party And you can go upstairs and take this pad and paper, this yellow pad, and write down what you're going to do differently. And then you're going to come back and tell me what you're going to do about it. So anyway, so what we call it is our yellow pad moments. If there's a yellow pad moment that you can share with the audience, what yellow pad moment would that be, Randy Chaffee? It's easy. That one's an easy one. It happened back during COVID. it. And it happened when I was the very typical road warrior, thousands, thousands of miles of the car, flights all over the place and with people all the time. And then all of a sudden, it was like, I can't travel at all. What am I going to do? How do I do what Randy does? And so I was worried. I was concerned. I was pity partying for a while. And then I instantly, and I love your yellow notepad, legal pad theory on that, but I started writing notes. What am I going to do? Because I can't travel. And that's where I started so many of the things that I do now. Started doing podcasting, started doing bomb bomb videos to customers, started doing text videos to customers, started doing social media in a much bigger way. Because I realized that at the time I thought it was a stopgap until I could get back to doing the old Randy way, right? Because that's human nature. I'm going to do this until I go back to what I know. But the short version of all that is short way into this thing, as in a year or so, I said, you know what? I'm not going back. I'm not going to eliminate the stuff that works, but I'm not going back to just doing it the old way and not embrace the new things that I found that works. For example, you do a podcast, you do posts, you do videos online, you do some of those, the new tech stuff. And I can communicate with hundreds, thousands, 10,000, I don't know, pick a number from my office and then do it again in five minutes. Or I can go on the road and I'm, you know, 27 hours and I'm seeing four people, right? So there's a time for both. But I think my theory has been, and I've adapted very much, is things change and I'll change with them. And the last thing I'll say on that here that I think it's important, at least I think it is, is I've did a lot of adapting, especially over the last five, six years. But the adaptions that I made aren't as important as the mindset of becoming an adapter. Because the adaptions are just time and place. Some of them I've kept, some of them I haven't, some of them I've massaged. But now you come to me different, and my mindset is different today than it was six years ago. You come to me and say, here's the way this needs to operate today. I may do my momentary, you're out of your mind. And then I'm going to think about it. And then I'm going to go, okay, well, then there we are. What can I do to make myself the best with the circumstances that I have or change the circumstances if I can? Randy, you're just telling everybody why you've been so successful because I got a feeling that Randy Chaffee has had to redefine himself many times in life. And COVID really did help us go through that. You know, COVID really helped us go through that. So, well said with that. Randy, if there was one question that I haven't asked you that you think the audience needs to know, what would that be? Wow, that's a good one. I would say probably, Hugh, they need, and I'm going to go back and repeat something because I think it's that important, but they need to know that you're probably capable of a lot more than you think you are, a lot more than a lot of people think you may be capable of. And I think you need to, to always be investigating who you are, what you are, why you are, and, and be willing to make those changes. And I think that's the biggest thing. And it's back to my adaptability thing, But you got to be willing to change who you are, not as a person, not as your core beliefs. But I can change some things on how I look at things today. Because whatever we think about that we just talked about that we did coming out of COVID, and especially with AI and what it's doing, three years from now, it's going to be totally different than today. So if we decide to sit in here today that we all agree there's a big group, that everything we're doing right now, is it for the rest of our lives, you better hope to retire pretty quick because that's not going to be the case, right? It's going to change quickly. It's going to change. And if you're not ready for that fast pace, you better get ready because with, like you said, you're very involved with AI. It's changing fast and you better be ready for the change. So be an adapter. Sure. And we, and we, uh, I think we agree on this. Um, and I kind of went through this as I went through cancer was that the most important conversation is the conversation that we have with ourselves, that words absolutely matter. Randy, I just want to say thanks for, for coming on, on, um, you're such a great person and, um, bring so much to the industry. So with, With that being said, I just want to say thank you for being a blue-collar smart person and somebody that I have just tremendous respect for. Thank you. Thank you very much. And thanks for coming on my fifth podcast for Blue Collar Smart, Built Different, Underdraw Proven, Trades Tested. Every great trade organization was built by someone who chose people over price. Blue Collar Smart exists for that leader. If you found value here, subscribe and share this with the operator who's ready for the next level. Built different. Trades proven. Hugh Hornsby, Voice of the Trades.