How Daniel Quinonez Went From a Newark Tavern to CEO of PHCC

Hugh Hornsby: [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] [00:00:25] [00:00:30] Hello everyone. This is Hugh Hornsby, founder of the, [00:00:35] the podcast Blue Collar Smart, Built Different, Underdog [00:00:40] Proven, and Trades Tested. I am excited to have Daniel [00:00:45] Quinonez with us, and we wanna say a, a, a [00:00:50] congratulations to Daniel. He was just identified as the pr- the [00:00:55] CEO of the Plumbing, Heating, Cooling, and Contractors Association [00:01:00] Daniel, thanks for s- showing up, and thanks for being [00:01:05] on the "Blue Collar Smart" podcast. Tell us a little bit about you and how [00:01:10] you ended up where you are. In fact, let's do something a little different. The [00:01:15] conversations that we've had in the past were where you got started you had some [00:01:20] blue-collar roots that I'd love you to share with the audience. Daniel Quinonez: Sure. [00:01:25] It's funny. To come full circle and become, CEO of a wonderful organization like [00:01:30] PHCC, it's definitely a proud moment in my life. It's something that you never [00:01:35] realize how much you really enjoy and love a job until you get to this position. , But my background came [00:01:40] from New Jersey and growing up, my father owned a, a tavern in [00:01:45] Newark, New Jersey, in the Ironbound section, and it was, uh, it was a very blue-collar [00:01:50] area, and a lot of the... You had a lot of the construction, uh, [00:01:55] contractors. A lot of the folks in that area there, uh, would frequent my dad's bar and, and I [00:02:00] still remember every weekend, starting, I think, about the age of six years old, my father made [00:02:05] myself and my, my older brothers go there and clean the bar and, you know, mop the [00:02:10] floors, clean the bathrooms, wipe the bottles down. So, so we really kinda [00:02:15] learned a, a very strong work ethic, and in that work ethic, I always stayed with [00:02:20] that, uh, throughout my career. And, you know, it's not that different than the plumbing and HVAC [00:02:25] contractors who work the same way. They work hard every day to, uh, you know, [00:02:30] build their businesses and, uh, provide a service to the community. Hugh Hornsby: I love what you're [00:02:35] saying. Coming from a family that were a bunch of watermen, and you used to see them go [00:02:40] out and work every day and how hard they worked it's really how our [00:02:45] country was built. It wasn't long ago, I was at the grocery store and [00:02:50] somebody said "Hugh, what are you doing?" I said, "I'm... Got a podcast called 'Blue Collar [00:02:55] Smart.'" And he looked at me and he said, "Why would you name it that?" And I said, "Well, you [00:03:00] know, when I was younger, at the age of 10, I was diagnosed with epilepsy, a head [00:03:05] injury, and I had to learn how to navigate the world from a very [00:03:10] different perspective." And what I love about what you're talking about and the [00:03:15] conversation that we're gonna have today- Is that blue collar is [00:03:20] not necessarily about how you dress, but it's about how you think. [00:03:25] And so today, I'd love to start having some conversations about [00:03:30] PHCC your journey on how you ended up at PHCC. Can you share a [00:03:35] little bit about that? Daniel Quinonez: Sure. Uh, my jour- journey, you know, it's [00:03:40] going back at, you know, growing up in New Jersey and, and working in a lot of, uh, government [00:03:45] and government agencies, and working with heavy construction, uh, associations and [00:03:50] groups over the years. And then I moved down to DC to start working for the National Home Builders, [00:03:55] uh, it feels like forever ago. It was about 20 years ago. Uh, I spent my time [00:04:00] working with a lot of the home builders around the country. I think I traveled to, like, 45 states by [00:04:05] that point after I finished my time there. But you really get a understanding of what [00:04:10] construction, you know, and what goes involved in that between the plumbing and the, and the [00:04:15] concrete and just everything, the framing, and really understanding that construction and [00:04:20] building is just so involved. And I think some people just [00:04:25] assume they just walk into a house and, or a building and it's just magically built. But so many people are [00:04:30] involved in that. And, you know, over the years working in different associations in DC area, [00:04:35] uh, and traveling around the country and having opportunity to see different parts of our country [00:04:40] And learning more about the trades. I had an opportunity about three and a half years [00:04:45] ago, became the, the, the executive director of the PHCC Educational [00:04:50] Foundation, which is formed about, oh God, it's about 40 [00:04:55] years now, to continue training and the learning of young [00:05:00] apprentices in the industry for plumbing, and then eventually became HVAC as well.[00:05:05] And it's just a, just a wonderful group to work with because, you know, the story is that [00:05:10] contractors, you know, banded together in the mid-'80s, raised a, a significant amount of [00:05:15] money, and created this foundation from their own dollars. And eventually, it's grown [00:05:20] so significantly, you know, in the industry in terms of just building out a, [00:05:25] the apprenticeship program and for both plumbing and HVAC, and all the [00:05:30] scholarships that we give out and the, our PHCC Online Academy, which [00:05:35] provides a online apprenticeship, pre-apprentice and apprenticeship training, and a [00:05:40] host of business and leadership courses as well. And that's grown significantly over the years as [00:05:45] well. So, you know, such a proud group. And then about a year and a half ago, I was offered to support [00:05:50] our current CEO, Cindy Sheridan, who I was her first hire when she became [00:05:55] CEO, and we just, we just meshed and got along so well together and really [00:06:00] enjoyed our time. Uh, and then she'd asked me to serve in a dual role of COO of the [00:06:05] association while being executive director of the foundation. And, you know, wearing many [00:06:10] hats over that time put me in a good position for our, our PHCC [00:06:15] board of directors to eventually ask me to serve as CEO, because Cindy [00:06:20] Sheridan will be retiring at the end of the year Hugh Hornsby: Well, con- congratulations on that.[00:06:25] Was there a, was there a time with the association that was more difficult than [00:06:30] others? Can, can you share a little bit about that? Daniel Quinonez: You know, it, it, [00:06:35] it's not that it's been difficult. I think what has happened... The PHCC is an organization [00:06:40] that's 140 years old. If you can even imagine back, you know, I, I... [00:06:45] Somebody sent me something, a- and you'll love this, is they showed me a [00:06:50] resolution to, you know, create an apprenticeship program in the United States. [00:06:55] It goes back to 1883 at the first PHCC. It [00:07:00] wasn't PHCC then, it was the Master Plumbers Convention in New York City, [00:07:05] and they were declaring then apprenticeship training. I mean, if you can imagine that. [00:07:10] Now fast-forward how many years and seeing, you know, what has accomplished. I [00:07:15] mean, so these folks back then were instrumental in creating the very training foundation, [00:07:20] and it's not that different than today. If you look at what they're training and what they were doing, it was really [00:07:25] fascinating. Uh, I'm a history buff, so that's why I love that stuff. Um, but [00:07:30] the challenges over the time, over the years, technology has [00:07:35] changed, you know, people have changed, uh, the marketplace has changed [00:07:40] significantly and, you know, there's so many as- aspects of an association that [00:07:45] changes with the times. It evolves. And so when I came in, it was a lot of, you know, a [00:07:50] lot of our contractors were starting to age out. Many of them were starting to sell [00:07:55] to, you know, different groups. Uh, private equity had come in and consolidated a [00:08:00] number of the contractors. So we're starting to see a little bit of a struggle in terms of our [00:08:05] membership. We started seeing a decrease, not because people didn't wanna be part of the association. What we saw [00:08:10] was the decrease was from just people changing. Life [00:08:15] was changing. And so the challenge for me coming into the CEO role is to [00:08:20] now look forward and say, "How do we re-energize our membership and bring back the [00:08:25] contractors who are not members?" Because the contractor itself is evolving. They're getting [00:08:30] younger. They're getting more tech-savvy. They're smarter. They're savvier with [00:08:35] business than they've ever been. They use AI as a resource. So I'm excited. I mean, it's a, it's... [00:08:40] The moment is meach- meeting the, the desire to, to be in this [00:08:45] industry and, and just the trades in general is exciting right now, all the stuff that's happening. Hugh Hornsby: I've been [00:08:50] in the the trades and the wholesale business for over 40 years. But I remember [00:08:55] there was a time that if a teacher told you that you didn't go to college, you weren't gonna be [00:09:00] successful, and I think, I, I think we're s- I think we're- There's a lot Daniel Quinonez: strong teachers now [00:09:05] in this industry, I'll tell you that. Hugh Hornsby: Yeah. They're, they're probably looking at it a little differently now. [00:09:10] And, and we also know that kids are coming out of college with incredible debt and [00:09:15] you and I had talked about where almost like the status of the industry [00:09:20] with the aging out that was going on, Do you think one of the biggest issues is just people [00:09:25] themselves? Daniel Quinonez: Uh, in, in terms of changing? Yeah, yeah. I think what's [00:09:30] happened, and I've even seen this in the last three to three and a half years being here, [00:09:35] you know, y- y- your, your title of your program is well, well said. Blue [00:09:40] collar, you know, it's changed. No-- People are gaining respect for [00:09:45] that because they're seeing the opportunities. You know, nothing pains me more [00:09:50] than seeing these kids go off to college, and then they come back, and then they go work for a [00:09:55] company. They spend... They got $100,000 in student loans. They go [00:10:00] work and, you know, the average pay where I live in Fairfax County, Virginia, for a [00:10:05] teacher, I think is $52,000. It doesn't go much up more than that. [00:10:10] So you can spend-- And it's a community service, and we appreciate it, but the problem is [00:10:15] how do you survive and pay off a $100,000 student loan living [00:10:20] anywhere in this country? A- and that's what-- I mean, and then you see stories of [00:10:25] people going to work for a company and, you know, they stay in this corporate structure for 20 [00:10:30] years, you know, not really getting many pay raises over that time, maybe paying off their loan, [00:10:35] and then getting laid off for AI that's now eliminated their jobs. And how many have there been? [00:10:40] You know, bankers, scientists, tech- all the technology positions that are out there, all the [00:10:45] com- How many-- When I remember in the '90s, everybody kept telling me when I went to college, "You had to [00:10:50] get in computer science. Computer science, computer science. You had to go work as computer science."[00:10:55] Most of those people probably are struggling if they haven't been laid off at this point by-- [00:11:00] and replaced by AI. Uh, and that's, that's the trend you see. So [00:11:05] now you see a generation of contractors, uh, both plumbing and [00:11:10] HVAC and many more, that are building businesses that are now [00:11:15] multimillionaires by the time they're, if done successfully, [00:11:20] by the time they're, you know, getting to an age. A- and that's not even, like, retirement age. It's [00:11:25] happening now. I see it. I see a ton of examples. Hugh Hornsby: It's funny you say that. [00:11:30] Dr. Sam McGough was on my podcast, and [00:11:35] he's buying HVAC and plumbing companies now. And I asked Sam, I said, [00:11:40] "Sam you own all these doctor's offices all over Alabama and all over the United [00:11:45] States. Why are you buying HVAC and plumbing companies?" And he [00:11:50] said, "Hugh-" My plumber came in and started talking to [00:11:55] me, and I looked at all the overhead I had. Now, he still does really well with being a [00:12:00] chiropractor in these individual doctor's office And he said, [00:12:05] "Hey, Q, I'm going to have dinner tonight and I'm gonna jump in my jet and I'm gonna, [00:12:10] you know, run over to wherever, Gulfport, Alabama" and he said, you [00:12:15] know, "What is wrong with this?" And so he started buying HVAC and plumbing [00:12:20] companies, I think that's really interesting. It kind of feeds into one of the things that I wanna [00:12:25] talk about, because I think you're always talking about building the middle of the road, [00:12:30] and I don't think anybody really understands what building the middle of the road is, but it's [00:12:35] kind of a near and dear place to my heart. Can you explain to what building of the middle of the [00:12:40] road means to you and what it means to the industry? Daniel Quinonez: Uh, you [00:12:45] know, building the middle of the road in my mind is, you know, cha- you, you changing the whole [00:12:50] notion of how we're learning on the trades in this country. I mean, can, you know, the, [00:12:55] the critical important of, of what we do. First and foremost, plumbing and [00:13:00] HVAC contractors provide such an incredible community service. But I also remember [00:13:05] in school years ago, if you weren't, if you were a straight A student, you were told to go to [00:13:10] college, no matter what the cost was. Go to college, go to college. Doesn't matter if you need [00:13:15] $150,000 in student loan. You know, I took a different approach. I went, you know, I went to college, [00:13:20] but I went into the Army to get the GI Bill because I knew I didn't want to be saddled with [00:13:25] college debt, and it allowed me to explore and be open when I [00:13:30] graduated for more opportunities and careers. Now they're saddling so many of these kids with that [00:13:35] debt that now these kids are struggling to figure out what they're doing. Now you have plumbing con- and [00:13:40] HVAC contractors who are doing their apprenticeship, they're getting paid while they learn, [00:13:45] if they choose the right program, and then they come out with an [00:13:50] opportunity to get their lives in a, in a situation at a young age. And, and, [00:13:55] and it could be at any age, actually. We have many, uh, apprentices that are actually in their [00:14:00] mid, late 20s to 30s. We even had one that was 72 years old taking our online [00:14:05] program out of Louisiana, and it was so nice to hear that. So when I see that's [00:14:10] the m- the middle of the road is that, you know, taking that opportunity, taking that lane and [00:14:15] changing your life. And that's one of the things I loved being at the foundation. I really genuinely felt like I was changing [00:14:20] people's lives. And you really, it feels... You know, I, I sound like a preacher, [00:14:25] but the reality is I'm preaching, you know, what we're doing, the, the [00:14:30] good, the good efforts, the good deeds. Now coming into this role, I wanna see co- [00:14:35] those apprentices who I helped, you know, worked with a great organization to support, [00:14:40] I wanna see them succeed as newly found, you know, [00:14:45] journeymen in their industries. So, you know, our focus is gonna be for me, is [00:14:50] making sure after you have your apprenticeship program, we didn't forget about you Now you're [00:14:55] gonna get out there. Now you need to... And that's the one unique feature about being [00:15:00] in the trades. I mean, Hugh, the learning never stops. I mean, I know a ton [00:15:05] of people, once you graduate college, boom, you never open a book. You're never gonna do any of that [00:15:10] ever again. I know people that went and got, you know, an English degree. They're lucky if they ever practice what [00:15:15] they did in school. You're done. That's it. You go on. You go on to your career [00:15:20] That is completely different when you deal with the trades in both plumbing and HVAC.[00:15:25] The learning never stops. There's both the technical learning, but there's also an [00:15:30] opportunity for them to grow in terms of business learning, leadership, [00:15:35] coaching, and then they start to become at the point where they're gonna succeed in their [00:15:40] businesses because then they become expert in their trades, and now they have the financial means to actually do [00:15:45] other things. So many of them, we wanna support them as they're going through that journey. Get [00:15:50] to that point where you get to decide, are you succeeding in your company? Do you wanna keep doing [00:15:55] that? Grow within-- As these contracting companies become more corporate, you [00:16:00] know, through private equity, you can grow in that company and become hugely successful, [00:16:05] or you become eventually, you get confident enough, you believe in your skills, you believe in your business [00:16:10] skills enough, you've learned enough that you wanna be an owner, and there goes the opportunity to be an [00:16:15] owner, and that's where we wanna help you even grow even further, and we offer that opportunity. [00:16:20] There's such a lifetime of learning, both on the plumbing and HVAC side. It, it-- To [00:16:25] me, the sky's the limit, and you're only gonna go as far as your desire, and I've seen this now [00:16:30] with so many people that are doing this. They, they are so hungry to [00:16:35] continue their learning, and you see it in the industry how professional the [00:16:40] contractor has become now, isn't it? Like, you see it everywhere you go. It's much more professional, their [00:16:45] operations, their business. They, they hire coaches to help them grow. [00:16:50] I mean, it's amazing. This isn't, you know, 30 year, 40 years ago, I remember, you know, [00:16:55] the guy off the pickup truck who's gonna come in in, you know, you know, his overalls. [00:17:00] That's not happening anymore. Are there out there? I'm sure they're out there. Most of them are probably [00:17:05] unlicensed, and we don't wanna hire them. You wanna hire a professional who knows what they're doing. You know? Like [00:17:10] I always say, you wanna hire some- You wanna hire the best doctor, not the person off the [00:17:15] street who just, you know, walks around, and that's what PHCC has been [00:17:20] working to do, and that's, that's gonna be my goal as CEO. Hugh Hornsby: It really excites me that we had [00:17:25] this conversation in Las Vegas a little bit. It was a little bit noisier back then but I think the [00:17:30] two of us were talking about the aging out of the industry. And when I take a look [00:17:35] at just school in general my wife's a schoolteacher, and she's [00:17:40] a pretty amazing person. Daniel Quinonez: So is my wife as well. Hugh Hornsby: I We don't really teach the [00:17:45] financial acumen coming through elementary school and high school and [00:17:50] college. We got so many kids coming out that aren't being taught that. So whether you wanna be [00:17:55] a business owner or whether you just wanna really understand, okay, maybe I wanna turn a [00:18:00] rich, but I wanna be able to manage my finances I think that's a huge [00:18:05] gap that, that PHCC is trying to fill Daniel Quinonez: It is. [00:18:10] A- and it's so critically important because that is one of the things I've seen. The struggle that [00:18:15] I've seen with some contractors is that when they go and open a business or they-- this is their [00:18:20] opportunity, they may be the best technician, plumber out [00:18:25] there. They have HVAC, they know everything, they know the ins and outs, but they're horrible at [00:18:30] business management. And the struggle for them is they want [00:18:35] to s- be successful in their business, but they need help, and the willingness to accept [00:18:40] that help and reach out to it is so critical, and that's why I wanna make sure [00:18:45] that they have a place to come to. And so many opportunities within [00:18:50] PHCC for coaching, business leadership, business learning, uh, is so [00:18:55] critical to their success. And I see the ones who embrace that learning and don't [00:19:00] give up and try to work through it, or they bring in people that can support those [00:19:05] roles and-- or they use technology to help them in those business roles, 'cause there's so many [00:19:10] opportunities for that as well, that in learning that they can manage their business successfully. And [00:19:15] I've seen, even in the last few years, contractors who just have three or four trucks suddenly in [00:19:20] three years, now they have 20 trucks, and now their businesses are valued in the [00:19:25] millions of dollars. And, and that's what I love seeing, that growth and success. Hugh Hornsby: That's [00:19:30] exciting. And- It is. Daniel Quinonez: It Hugh Hornsby: really- Yeah. Daniel Quinonez: You get excited. It, it's energetic. Hugh Hornsby: So, so I have [00:19:35] another, I have another question for you. You know, one and two truck plumbers and three truck [00:19:40] plumbers, and there's a lot of those people that are just aging out. By the time [00:19:45] they get to their 60s or whatever that number is, and they go to sell the [00:19:50] business they have a challenge selling the business because they're the only one there running the business. [00:19:55] We see a lot more of that than, than we'd really like to. Are you, are you-- Is [00:20:00] PHCC trying to help those people early on so if they do wanna position [00:20:05] themselves to sell, what is PHCC doing trying to help them position [00:20:10] themselves for either it over to somebody else or maybe even selling it to PE at some point?[00:20:15] Daniel Quinonez: Sure. I mean, we definitely, we offer a lot of opportunities through our coaching programs a- [00:20:20] and I think it's so critical. We see that transition happening and, you [00:20:25] know, there's really... You know, what we also see is a lot of those, especially the small-time [00:20:30] companies, um, their children don't wanna take over. Their children, they put their kids through other [00:20:35] things at college, so their kids are all gone, or maybe they don't have kids, so there's nobody to [00:20:40] sell the busi- turn the business over. There's no family. So, you know, PHCC has a lot of [00:20:45] opportunities to help learn more, whether it's employee-owned Maybe within their company, there's [00:20:50] employees that wanna take over the business. Um, maybe there is a transition to [00:20:55] children that's available, succession planning to your kids. And then also at least put them in a [00:21:00] position they can maximize their value, whether it's going to a private equity company as well. And I [00:21:05] think that's critical because sometimes private equity, that's not the boogeyman. They're-- [00:21:10] If they come in and they make an offer, they're doing it, and so, 'cause maybe you don't have anyone else to [00:21:15] turn the company over to. Nothing wrong with that. I think these people, many, many of these [00:21:20] contractors have worked incredibly hard. They've built a business. Doesn't matter if it's two to five [00:21:25] trucks. If there's a value there and they wanna enjoy the time they have in [00:21:30] retirement with the dollars they have, they should be-- they should seek that out. And I-- [00:21:35] we encourage them to look at all their options and make sure, even whether it's a private [00:21:40] equity, is analyze what's the best offer and make sure that you're [00:21:45] comfortable with what you're doing. 'Cause some of the things I do hear sometimes is regret that, [00:21:50] "Maybe I shouldn't have done this at this time," or, "Maybe I shouldn't have sold to that company." Because when you sell to a [00:21:55] private equity, in my mind, and I've seen this, is that you're-- you have to be willing to let go of [00:22:00] everything. You know? They may keep you on for a year, but you're not running that company [00:22:05] anymore, and that's important that you... So we try to provide succession learning as much as possible [00:22:10] at PHCC, uh, through various programs and, and efforts as well, 'cause I think [00:22:15] that's critical. You, you've, you've worked hard, you've earned it, so. Hugh Hornsby: It definitely earned it. [00:22:20] Um, private equity is not the bad- I bet a lot of people make them, make them out to [00:22:25] be, but there's different private equity Daniel Quinonez: areas Yes. Hugh Hornsby: Mm-hmm And I, I think [00:22:30] it's like anything else we do in life is position ourself for that next [00:22:35] transition. Um, and that transition is gonna be different for different people.[00:22:40] Tell me a little bit, right now we're, we're hearing a bunch about AI, and, [00:22:45] and, you know, you, you hear AI as like, like they're-- it's the bad guy, and it's gonna take [00:22:50] over from different people. But really, I don't think AI's the bad guy. But, [00:22:55] uh, my question to you is what do you think about AI, and how is it either [00:23:00] enhancing, um, or taking away from, you know, what we're doing with, [00:23:05] you know, the PHCC members? Daniel Quinonez: Sure. Uh, you know, I-- our philosophy [00:23:10] from here is that AI is not the boogeyman, it's not the enemy. [00:23:15] Um, you know, there's fears that terminators are gonna walk into your house and change your hot water tank, [00:23:20] are gonna walk downstairs. Um, that's not gonna happen. You know, the reality [00:23:25] is that, you know, there's a lot of fearmongering that kind of happens in that, and I think that's going on in [00:23:30] general in the world. But for the plumbing and HVAC side, AI is [00:23:35] becoming a business resource. It's not gonna run your company, but it's a resource. A [00:23:40] resource in the terms of now when you have a tech in the field, they no longer [00:23:45] have to scribble a bunch of notes into a pad. You know, they can put it into Chat [00:23:50] GPT, clean up the invoice, the request to the customer. Now a customer can get [00:23:55] it, and it's real-time data. Um, there's so many things. They can manage [00:24:00] schedules more adeptly around the in, in how many trucks you have. There's time. They [00:24:05] know how to build it out. So it's become a resource. We have one contractor [00:24:10] that, uh, I know well, uses it as a... You know, when you call his company, Emily answers the [00:24:15] phone, and Emily sounds like a real person. But sh- what she does, 'cause he's not a [00:24:20] large company, is that Emily allows him not to have to pay [00:24:25] a call center or a, a person answering the phones. What the AI does is [00:24:30] direct the call to the right person within the company and serves as an assistant. So as a [00:24:35] resource and a tool, number one, it's, it's speeding up [00:24:40] techs in the field to do more work to hit more customers, but it's also helping [00:24:45] with business operations create more efficiency within the company if done right, [00:24:50] and, and that's the critical part, is learning and growing within AI. Embrace it as [00:24:55] what it can. It could help to grow your company. It's not gonna take your company over. It's gonna help [00:25:00] grow, which in the end is more financial success for you all. Hugh Hornsby: I always look at [00:25:05] AI from both the wholesale side and on the, the, you know, [00:25:10] contractor side as an asset that really helps [00:25:15] you with the part of the business that, that, um- You know, y- you [00:25:20] can send somebody out, whether it's gonna be in sales or whether it's be the technician, and all that [00:25:25] other backend stuff, hopefully you can figure that out. Daniel Quinonez: Yeah. And, and [00:25:30] I, I seen so many te- the technology that's there. You know, now you could have, um, [00:25:35] techs in the field, if they see something difficult, they could scan it via AI, [00:25:40] and it could provide assistance to an answer. There's video connections now. [00:25:45] If a tech has a question, he, it helps him connect to the right person within the company. Uh, it could [00:25:50] help to order parts faster, move things along. So as an op- as a business [00:25:55] resource, I think it's incredibly important to the growth of your company to embrace AI [00:26:00] while it's now as it changes. I think it's only gonna help our industry [00:26:05] grow. Hugh Hornsby: I 100% agree with that. And so what [00:26:10] other issues do you have that you're taking a look at, uh, Dan, that, [00:26:15] um, we haven't, we haven't talked about today? Daniel Quinonez: Yeah. It's, it's... [00:26:20] One of the big things that, and this is I think you probably understand this as well, from, from [00:26:25] our concern from PHC, look, our contractors, you know, they spend a great deal of [00:26:30] time. They've, they've earned their stripes. They've learned. They've grown their business. [00:26:35] But they had to go through that apprenticeship program. They had to learn. They had to do the [00:26:40] hands-on training. They had to gain the skills and knowledge to be the [00:26:45] best of the best. You know, one, one of the things I think I'm, as coming in a CEO that concerns me, there [00:26:50] seems to be more and more of an effort to let customers use unlicensed [00:26:55] contractors or more poorly skilled contractors, like watering down the [00:27:00] licensure around the country. Um, you know, and, and that, that to me is a disturbing [00:27:05] trend in some areas that we're seeing. Uh, there's been legislation by folks who, [00:27:10] you know, honestly As they wanna save money. That, uh, [00:27:15] and I get that, but at the expense of the customer. And I don't think a lot of customers are [00:27:20] aware how incredibly important it is to have a skilled professional, whether you're [00:27:25] installing, uh, you know, a new pipe or, you know, a new HVAC machine. You know, it's not [00:27:30] something you could just find somebody off a pickup truck, you know, in, uh, in one of the [00:27:35] big box stores. It doesn't work like that. And, you know, and I think people see the price [00:27:40] tag and they think to themselves, "Well, that's too expensive." And then they re- they live with [00:27:45] regret, and it ends up being a far worse problem later on, [00:27:50] both, you know, potential for physical harm in your own home, you know, when you're dealing with gas [00:27:55] lines and, and new installations of pipes and damage. A- and, and [00:28:00] that's, that's a scary trend that I'm seeing in some states, and I'd like to see the states [00:28:05] a- and the federal government more, put more emphasis into efforts about making sure that [00:28:10] apprentices are well-trained. Because I will tell you, you're not gonna see an untrained, [00:28:15] unlicensed contractor at a data center 'cause those companies will never put them on that site at [00:28:20] all. So I think the, the everyday homeowner and small [00:28:25] business owner deserves that same level of skilled professionals, and make sure that they're licensed [00:28:30] because then that gives an, a, a customer legal recourse if something is to [00:28:35] happen. And I think that's, I'm seeing a disturbing trend that that's k- could be happening down the [00:28:40] line because there's this gap saying, "We need more apprentices. We need more app- we need to water it down to make it [00:28:45] easier for them to come into the industry." I, I don't believe that at all. Folks who get in this [00:28:50] industry from a young age, whether, you know, n- 18 to 25, they wanna get in because they see [00:28:55] an opportunity, and the best thing we can do is give them the best training that we could [00:29:00] have. A- and that's something we do at PHCC. We have our own apprentice pr- online [00:29:05] program. We have a lot of our state chapters that have great brick-and-mortar schools. Uh, you can [00:29:10] actually get a scholarship through our foundation to do that. We've given out about [00:29:15] $200,000 in scholarships. So these young professionals who wanna get into this industry [00:29:20] have the opportunity. There's a lot of... And the other point I was gonna make, there's a lot of misinformation to [00:29:25] that too. And you probably see it, that, you know, any fly-by-night, you [00:29:30] know, person in a basement can open up a, a tech school for something, uh, or go [00:29:35] cheap, and that to me is disturbing too. I think I saw- Sure. Hugh Hornsby: Go ahead. Can, [00:29:40] can, let, let's, let's expand on that because Online, you're starting to [00:29:45] see, you know, all of this stuff come up, and, and, um, and [00:29:50] you're seeing all these tech schools come up. And I, I, I'd like you to [00:29:55] expand on that one because it's, it's kind of disturbing. Daniel Quinonez: It is. [00:30:00] It is. Um, interesting... Uh, you know, it's funny. There's an interesting point. So the [00:30:05] WorldSkills is going on in Shanghai, China right now, and I think I mentioned to you we have a [00:30:10] young, uh, competitor from Connecticut who's competing right now, uh, in the [00:30:15] competition, and it's so exciting to see him. Um, hopefully he does the best. And, [00:30:20] but the three years that I have in working with WorldSkills and training helped. The [00:30:25] PHUC worked with IATMO, the UA, uh, a number of manufacturers to support this kid, [00:30:30] and these other people that have competed as well. But what I found [00:30:35] in that effort is how incredibly disjointed the learning [00:30:40] is for apprenticeship programs around this country, and who is in this program. [00:30:45] And one- I was talking to the head of the WorldSkills organization. We were sitting on a panel, [00:30:50] uh, back in June at SkillsUSA, and he said to me [00:30:55] most fascinating thing. He said in China, China has a national strategy [00:31:00] for the trades They have metrics in every region. [00:31:05] Everybody has to meet those metrics. They have goals that they have to accomplish to [00:31:10] keep the construction going. Nothing should slow it down. So [00:31:15] what we have in the US is 50 different states, 50 different rules for [00:31:20] plumbing and HVAC, and then what happens? And then you get more into the depth that you start [00:31:25] seeing fly-by-night schools. There was a school in Texas that, you know, apparently [00:31:30] was committing fraud. Uh, people were not even-- They were showing up. There was, like, [00:31:35] nothing. It was supposed to be an HVAC school, and apparently the kids were coming out paying them 12 to [00:31:40] $18,000 and coming out with nothing. I mean, the training was minimal at [00:31:45] that. And to me, that's the sad part. And my hope is that, you know, on [00:31:50] the federal side, there is a national standard, but I think every state I wish would follow [00:31:55] that rule. There should be more federal involvement in terms of both licensure [00:32:00] and, uh, apprenticeship training, and get back to a point so you don't water it down, [00:32:05] and make sure that we have the best, because I think the best will actually be the ones that [00:32:10] move our construction forward in these states that need it the most. And, and [00:32:15] we see that, and we see-- You've seen it, I'm sure, around the country where it's different, different [00:32:20] things happening in different parts. But you c- every time I talk to s- a, a contractor who's in the [00:32:25] training world, when they hire a person from a particular area, they'll know right away if [00:32:30] that person was trained well or not. And a lot of times they find that they're not [00:32:35] trained well, and that's where they have to now spend time retraining this person. [00:32:40] A-and that, that costs a lot of time and money for the contractor as well. Hugh Hornsby: And, and what can we [00:32:45] do? Is there something we can do now, or is there something that PHCC does? Are you [00:32:50] certifying some of these, um, trade schools, or is that some-- is that a [00:32:55] conversation that, that, um- That you, you've been having on [00:33:00] trying to figure out how to maybe fill that gap a little bit? Daniel Quinonez: We are-- We're, we're working on a [00:33:05] number of initiatives when I move into this role is, you know, looking to, you know, grow an [00:33:10] opportunity to help get new trainers into the field through PHCC standards. Uh, but [00:33:15] we do have our own curriculum, and that was the first start. Our curriculum, to me, [00:33:20] is the gold standard in training. I know there's other ones out there. They're very good, and they work in different programs, [00:33:25] but the PHCC curriculum was developed by contractors and educators to [00:33:30] be one of, I think, the gold standard of training. We have an [00:33:35] online program that's available as well that, again, works hand in hand [00:33:40] with the contractor. So if you have a new employee and you wanna put them through the program, [00:33:45] it, it's relatively cost-effective as well. So that person [00:33:50] hopefully can either pay that into that program, work for g- earn while you [00:33:55] learn, which is important because now you're working for this company, but you're doing your online course [00:34:00] separately. You're, you're working with PHCC, and that employer, that contractor's [00:34:05] giving you the hands-on experience, learning, earning your hours that you're gonna need [00:34:10] to get your the opportunity to even sit for a test. And that's something PHCC does [00:34:15] very well. In a number of our states, we also have brick-and-mortar schools. [00:34:20] Again, when you graduate from a PHCC brick-and-mortar school, you're, you're done. You, [00:34:25] you've got your training. You're g-- You have the ability to apply for the testing that's [00:34:30] necessary to get your license, and that's what we do. Our job at PHCC, most [00:34:35] importantly, is to develop the best and the brightest, uh, of our trades. And you see it, and you [00:34:40] go around the country and you see so many young, uh, you know, uh, folks taking our program [00:34:45] that come out of it ready to go, well-trained, and you see a lot of future success as [00:34:50] well. Hugh Hornsby: You know, uh, that's well said. So let's say there's a teacher [00:34:55] Or a parent, or even a, a grandparent, or maybe there's [00:35:00] somebody that's listening to this podcast that say, "Hey, I wanna know where to go get that [00:35:05] training," and how to, uh, and, and maybe take a look at the scholarship [00:35:10] offers that you, you guys have. What, what is your suggestion for them for, [00:35:15] for, uh, taking a look at PHCC, uh, both the national and the, [00:35:20] and the local groups? What, what is it that they can do? Daniel Quinonez: Sure. [00:35:25] I, I would always encourage, and I think this is the most important thing, is go to the PHCC Educational [00:35:30] Foundation website, learn more about education and, and what you [00:35:35] need. We even have a pre-apprentice and a workforce test that allows somebody to take some [00:35:40] videos, understand what the trade is like. The pre-apprentice program, it lets you take [00:35:45] a, a course for $29 that has a number of, uh, about six [00:35:50] modules that gives them the understanding of what you're getting yourself into. Now, at PHCC, we do have a [00:35:55] workforce site that lets them understand more, but it'll help direct them, [00:36:00] hopefully, to the state that they live in and see what programs might be available to [00:36:05] them. And the nice part is we have 44 state chapters around the country [00:36:10] here, and a lot of our local PHCC chapters have programs as well. [00:36:15] And there's always an opportunity. But I always say, you know, most important thing is [00:36:20] for any person looking, a parent, uh, anyone, grandparent, aunt, aunt, uncle [00:36:25] Do your research and look, help them understand what's the best [00:36:30] program that's gonna help them get through. And I always say, don't rush into these [00:36:35] very expensive programs. You think you're gonna get your stuff together for 12, [00:36:40] 18,000. PHCC program is, I, I honestly, the whole program, [00:36:45] depending on your state, averages about two to three thou- I would say less than maybe about [00:36:50] $2,200 a year for the program. But there's scholarships available as well [00:36:55] that support by your PHCC employer. You can get that scholarship and literally [00:37:00] graduate, if you get through the whole program, earn your hours, earn while you [00:37:05] learn, you're gonna come out with no debt. And, and, and I promise that. You will. Hugh Hornsby: Say, say that [00:37:10] again. Did, did you say Daniel Quinonez: no debt? I promise you, you'll go... You'll come out with no debt. If you work through the [00:37:15] program, you get into a good con- PHCC contracting company, and you earn [00:37:20] your way through, many employers will reimburse the student after he's done. If not, there's [00:37:25] a scholarship that's available. And we'll, we'll work with PHCC contractors. We'll actually [00:37:30] reimburse the company to help cover the training as well. So I think there's so many [00:37:35] opportunities there for contract- young, young folks to get in and family to look at it. [00:37:40] And, you know, the most important thing is, you know, don't rush into something. A- [00:37:45] do the homework. Make sure that you know what you wanna get into. Uh, between [00:37:50] HVAC and plumbing, make sure to know the difference. And, and there's other opportunities. Look at [00:37:55] all the trades that you might enjoy the most. And I think that's something I always don't wanna discourage [00:38:00] somebody to say, "Just go into ours." There's so many opportunities right now that are [00:38:05] out there. And, you know, I, I look back and I think to myself, "I would have loved to have gone [00:38:10] through that now." Hugh Hornsby: I might Daniel Quinonez: have. But Hugh Hornsby: it works out in the end. I didn't even know it was [00:38:15] available, so. Daniel Quinonez: I didn't either, and that's part of the thing. I think school counselors need to do a better job about [00:38:20] this. Uh, I think teachers need to get more understanding of it. Um, maybe college is [00:38:25] not the right thing, uh, for kids that need to... You know, maybe that's not their thing. And you know what? [00:38:30] Getting into the contracting business, uh, plumbing or HVAC, it doesn't stop you [00:38:35] from going to college. You could still go to college. You can still, after you finish, you could work, [00:38:40] uh, and, you know, still go get that marketing degree, that business degree. We even [00:38:45] have scholarships if you're going to college, you know? So, but it's for a particularly [00:38:50] industry-supported effort. Hugh Hornsby: I mean, we, we could talk about this one for y- [00:38:55] forever, because I was just at the workforce group in Hampton Roads for the Navy [00:39:00] and, uh, you know, it was... Yeah, we'll talk about that one offline because I think there's [00:39:05] opportunities for PHCC to get involved there. Um, but m- more, more than [00:39:10] anything else, uh, is there, the website that you're talking ab- talking about, [00:39:15] do you know that off, offhand? W- um, it's www, uh- Daniel Quinonez: [00:39:20] Yep, phcc, uh, educationalfoundation.org. And if they take [00:39:25] an opportunity, take a look at that. It's very simple. Uh, and we, you know, simple search can look [00:39:30] up anything they need on the, on the website. Um, you know, again, always my [00:39:35] suggestion is do their, do their homework. And if you go to the PHCC website, [00:39:40] uh, you'll find out more information as well on workforce development, and that could help [00:39:45] provide some more guidance to, uh, folks who need it. Hugh Hornsby: That is great. So all those [00:39:50] grandmothers and grandfathers out there and, and teachers, um, this is a, [00:39:55] just an incredible option. Um, as we wrap this thing up, Daniel, um, [00:40:00] or Dan, it's, um, one of the things when I was a kid, I, I, [00:40:05] uh, was diagnosed with epilepsy and, um, I was diagnosed with [00:40:10] epilepsy and I kind of had to look at the world very differently. At one time, you know, my [00:40:15] ninth-grade teacher tried to put me into special needs, and I remember coming home and telling my [00:40:20] mom how upset I was, and she would take, she would give me about [00:40:25] 15 minutes for a pity party, and then she'd give me a yellow pad and a pen, and she'd send [00:40:30] me upstairs and say, "Write down what you're gonna do about it, and then come back and tell me what action you're gonna [00:40:35] take." So if you had a yellow pad moment, uh, [00:40:40] that you can share with the group, what would that yellow pad moment be? Daniel Quinonez: I, [00:40:45] I, I always, you know, it's, it's interesting you say that. My wife works in, uh, special education [00:40:50] and, you know, I- she's always been one to tell every person, "Look at the [00:40:55] individual and really become what... You know, let your dreams fulfill yourself. Like, go out [00:41:00] there, don't give up." Uh, my yellow pad moment, I always tell, "Don't ever quit. [00:41:05] Don't give up, no matter what the obstacles are." I know in my own personal life, I mean, I've probably [00:41:10] overcome so many different obstacles to get where I'm at today, to be the honor and privilege of [00:41:15] serving PHCC in this position. You know, it's been a long road, but, you know, [00:41:20] my yellow pad moment is don't ever quit. No matter what life throws at [00:41:25] you, just keep moving forward. Get up. If you get knocked down, just keep moving forward. You [00:41:30] did that. I did it, and look what happens. And I've seen so many people, I think, in this [00:41:35] generation today, and I, and I, and, and, and I joke sometimes 'cause, you know, [00:41:40] even with my young children, my, my... And I, I tell them every time they fall down, [00:41:45] "Just get back up. Don't quit. Just keep moving forward, and no matter what life [00:41:50] throws at you." And, and that's the yellow pad moment in my mind. Hugh Hornsby: And, and it's a great piece of [00:41:55] advice, um, because you just gotta keep moving. And don't believe other [00:42:00] people. You know, don't believe those people that said that you're not good enough. And, and may- maybe you're not good [00:42:05] enough, but then you can learn from that as well, but just keep moving forward. So the [00:42:10] other thing that we, we usually ask at the end is, is that, uh, [00:42:15] the people that are listening to the podcast, you know, they'll, uh, they'll hang up and they say, [00:42:20] "Man, I, I wish Hugh would've asked, uh, Dan this one [00:42:25] question." If there was a question that I didn't ask you, what question would, would have [00:42:30] that been? Daniel Quinonez: Oh, that's a good- That is a good question. Um, I [00:42:35] always think that, you know, the- You know, where do I see the industry going? [00:42:40] Where's the, where's the plumber in the future going? The HVAC, where are we going in the future? [00:42:45] Um, you know, I don't have a, you know, the, the magic mirror to see how we're gonna look in the [00:42:50] next 20 to 30 years. I think it's amazing this organization's been there for 140 years. [00:42:55] I'm hoping it could be here for another 140 years. Uh, you know, and I think the question to [00:43:00] me is where are we going? I just think this is an amazing time to be in the [00:43:05] trades right now. Uh, I have seen that difference happening over the last few years. [00:43:10] I would say, you know, if you have an opportunity as a contractor, be open [00:43:15] to learning and growing. The f- the, the, the future is there. I mean, you have an opportunity to [00:43:20] be successful and grow as a contractor, as an owner. There's so [00:43:25] many wonderful opportunities out there. But I think the one thing I always say, where is the industry going? [00:43:30] That's what makes PHCC special. It, it's a strong community of [00:43:35] contractors who support each other, and, uh, i- in many ways, I'll say like a brotherhood, [00:43:40] and they support each other to help them in the long term. So that being said, [00:43:45] I think that's an exciting thing is you have an organization like PHCC that will be there to [00:43:50] support you as a contractor, grow and succeed, and actually meet other [00:43:55] contractors who are equally like that. It's not a competitive group. They don't come in there [00:44:00] and say, "This is my rival." No. They actually say, "You're part of PHCC. Thank [00:44:05] you for joining and supporting us. Let's make great things happen." And I see that at the local and [00:44:10] state and national level. It's so exciting to see that. Hugh Hornsby: Well, that's, that's a great [00:44:15] comment, and the comment I like the most out of that is that most people, this [00:44:20] has been a industry that's been overlooked for years, but there's a brotherhood [00:44:25] here. And if these people are looking for a brotherhood, if they're looking to be a part [00:44:30] of something bigger than themselves, you know- Daniel Quinonez: I will add, too, there's a brotherhood and a sisterhood, [00:44:35] 'cause that's one of the things that's- That's, that's right ... more and more, there's a brotherhood and a sisterhood, 'cause I've seen a lot more [00:44:40] women getting into our industry, both as contractors and contractor owners that are becoming [00:44:45] very successful as well. Hugh Hornsby: It's amazing what you're doing. I wanna say thank you on [00:44:50] behalf of the industry, and just thanks for the friendship. Once [00:44:55] again, congratulations on becoming the CEO. They're just in incredible hands. Want you to know [00:45:00] that we're here to help you in any way that we can, and thank you very much.[00:45:05] Daniel Quinonez: Thank you, Hugh. I appreciate it. ​[00:45:10] [00:45:15] [00:45:20] [00:45:25] [00:45:30] [00:45:35]