Mark Hunter on Integrity First Selling and Building Real Trust in the Trades

I did not want to be in sales. Sales was the last job I wanted to have, period. I did not want to go into sales. I was in college and I was going to get a marketing degree because it was easy. I was not an overachiever in college. And I was getting a marketing degree and I thought I'd go to work for a marketing company. And the tail end of my senior year, the police department changed my career. The police department changed everything about me. It was because I got too many speeding tickets. Now, nobody was hurt, nobody was harmed, but I just got too many speeding tickets and I could not afford car insurance. Most trade leaders are working harder than ever and still stuck. There's a better way to compete, and it starts with people. This is Blue Collar Smart, hosted by Hugh Hornsby, 40-year trade executive, industry award winner, and the only media voice built for leadership on both sides of the trade. Every episode, one truth, one action, one step forward. Welcome to Blue Collar Smart. Good afternoon. This is Hugh Hornsby. I'm here with a good friend of mine, Mark Hunter, who has written five books and is an expert when it comes to sales. But what he's really an expert at is integrity. And that's how Mark and I got connected. Today, we are Blue Collar Smart, built different, underdog proven, trades tested. A podcast that is for the trades, but it's not just for the guy that's got the wrench. It goes all the way up to the person that maybe is ringing that bell on Wall Street. It's for everybody. Mark, welcome. Thank you for joining us today. Hey, thank you for having me. This is a great topic. This is a great audience, and let's dig in. I want to have a great conversation with you and our audience. One of the things that I believe in is a people-based business model, and you and I have talked about that. You've seen me kind of at Everflow, how I have built that, and you've been one of the guiding lights for me as I run into some of the challenges that we have. and one of the things as we start to talk about the industry, both on the trade side and on the wholesale side, there's just a lot going on there. And today we hear people talk about trades in a way that, hey, you don't have to go to high school. Trades are the way to go. We really think that is true, but we think there's a lot more there. But before I start to get into that, tell everybody, Mark, a little bit about you. I think you have five books and you just had one that came out that I have read that's on integrity selling, but explain a little bit about that. And then let's drop back a little bit and talk about when you first got into the business and some of the failures that you've had to kind of bring you to where you are today. Oh, wow. Let me share with a little bit where I am now. Yeah. I've been doing this. What's this? I get to work with companies all over the world. I've had a chance to speak in 29 different countries around the world, so many different industries. And I love the companies, the people, sales is people, it's people. And one of the things that I've found is it's relationships. And yeah, the title of my last book is Integrity First to Selling, because I tell you what, in this AI, in this crazy world, media driven world, relationships are more important than ever. And that's really integrity, authentic relationships where people can trust. That's you think about it. So many of us as salespeople, we interact with the same customers month in, month out, week in, week out, year in, year out. And you develop relationships. It's valuable. But I got to share with you. Let me, I'll go back to the beginning right now because I didn't start out that way. I did not want to be in sales. Sales was the last job I wanted to have, period. I did not want to go into sales. The only reason I got into sales, and I was in college, and I was going to get a marketing degree because it was easy. I was not an overachiever in college. And I was getting a marketing degree, and I thought I'd go to work for a marketing company. And the tail end of my senior year, the police department changed my career. The police department changed everything about me. It was because I got too many speeding tickets. Now, nobody was hurt, nobody was harmed, but I just got too many speeding tickets, and I could not afford car insurance. And what happened was my car insurance was through the roof. It was about equal what I was paying in monthly rent for my apartment and also for the car payment. The reason I got speeding tickets, yeah. So I knew I had to do something. So I had to get a job that supplied me with a company car. That's how I wound up in sales. And I was driving a Buick. That's a great story. Yeah. This was not something, but this was a company, and it was selling meat to restaurants and stores and so forth. So they gave you territory, and here's a car, and go out and sell. I had no clue what I was doing. No clue. Because I didn't want to be in sales. I just wanted a car. And I was so good at that job, I got fired. Yeah. I got fired from that job. I lasted one year, like one year and one week. Got a second sales job. second company car yeah that too happened to be a Buick I guess back in the day back in those days that's was the official company car got another Buick and I didn't even last with that company for eight months I got fired from that job and then I got a third company car the third job this one wasn't a Buick maybe that was a sign maybe that was a sign and but I remember I was with this third company for about two months and I got called in on a meeting and it wasn't with my boss. It was my boss's boss. He sent me down and he said, Mark, do you know what you're doing? I didn't have the heart to admit I didn't know what I was doing because I didn't. I had no clue. I had no clue what I was doing. And he said, you're not taking the time to listen to the customer. You're not taking the time to really, truly listen to the customer, find out what their needs are, find out what they're looking for and develop a relationship that was just like wow now i didn't get fired from that job in fact i won i spent 12 years with that company wonderful career it wasn't like my career suddenly changed he shed those words on me and i walk out and i'm a new person but it slowly began that transition of realizing so along that way what did you so you had a mentor that kind of sent that message to you. Did you start studying? Did you start finding interest in what you were doing? Because that's almost going from a transaction to more of a transformational mindset. It was because up to that point, I was viewing customer. You talk about transaction. My view was the customer was a bowling pin and it was my job just to knock them down, take their money and run. That was my whole view of sales. How often do you think that happens now, Mark? Oh, I think it still happens a lot. I think it's still probably 30, 40% of all sales experiences are that. And there's another 20 or 30 that are kind of, and maybe only 20%, 25% that are really, truly engaging conversations. That's where the opportunity he is. We have so much upside in sales. It's unbelievable. It's funny you say that because I kind of had that as well. And I remember trying to go to pay the pizza man and I didn't have enough money to pay him. And I was working as hard as I could work. And I went over and found Sandler sales training. And they introduced me to a guy named Larry Wilson and Earl Nightingale. And I put those tapes in and it changed the way I looked at how I really dealt with customers. Yeah, that's you have to have a mentor, a voice, something pouring into you. And see, that was part of my problem early on. I'm 22, 23 years of age. I'm cocky. I'm arrogant. I think I know everything. And of course, it's a job I didn't want to have. I was resistant to learning. And it was finally when you get slapped around enough times that you get humbled. that's when I began to listen to some of the peers in my company and really began okay let's listen to this let's let's understand this and watch people and I remember I had a sales manager about three years into after that experience he was just mind-blowing he was so good it was just it was what did he do that was different he just listened to the customer it was so funny because we would go in on sales calls together and he would just ask questions. He just asked questions and listened. And whatever the customer said, he asked them another question. The customers fell in love with him. And I'm sitting here watching him. I go, okay, this is a pretty good strategy. This is probably working. And what was interesting was he could go into sales calls, not stressed. Go into sales call. Oh, I got to make this presentation. I got to build this. I got to I got to close this deal. Yeah, yeah. And he's just going in to have a conversation. Yeah. And he comes out with the business. And I go, wow. So that was probably the real turning point where I began to realize that sales is just about a conversation. It's just because let me run with this a bit. Because what I realized, because the fear that so many people have is prospecting, right? how many times people don't want to prospect. And the adage, the belief that I've come up with, and I thoroughly love that is, if you, Hugh, have the ability to help someone and you see someone that you can help you owe it to them to reach out to them And if you don reach out to them you doing them a disservice I tell audiences when I speak in front of audiences I say I have problems You can ask my kids My kids will tell you dad got a lot of problems and you can help me. I would want you to help me. And that's what prospecting is. That's what prospecting is. That's what sales is. Sales is a service. It is an absolute. I don't like this idea that sales is this exchange of monetary for things and no sales is about it's about helping you helping you helping the customer and i don't care what it is that you do and doing what's right yes and no knowing that you're gonna if you have to make a hard decision and walk away from the sales because it's not right for the client, then that's what you do. That's what you do. Yes. It's interesting. I was coaching an individual yesterday and he was walking me through a customer situation. He's got a client that wants to buy this particular item, but he really wants him to buy this other item. He says, I just don't think that item is going to be right. And I said, here's the situation. You as a salesperson, you have to present the facts, ask the questions, get them to evaluate. But at the end of the day, it's their decision to make. It's their decision to make. And whatever decision they make, you have to embrace it. And that's what sales is. Because ultimately, my job is to not just sell you. I want to come alongside you. I want to be able to work with you. I want to be able to help you. And that was going to be my next question, is that alignment. Can you speak to sales and alignment and making sure that you're aligned with the client and your thoughts about that? Yeah. Alignment is so critical, especially if you're going to sell with integrity. If the customer doesn't have a value system that lines up with yours. Run. Run from them. Don't try to sell them. Because what's going to happen is they're going to try to get you to compromise. Now, here's what I found. People who sell with integrity attract customers who have integrity. Customers or salespeople who are sleazeballs, they attract customers who are sleazeballs. We really do attract who we're like. It really is amazing. Because at the end of the day, a really suspect customer doesn't want to work with somebody who has integrity, they're turned off by them and vice versa. So it is absolutely imperative. If you're dealing with a customer that does not line up with your values, your standards, whatever, there's other customers out there. You just have to walk away. I really love our industry because it's built with a lot of family-type values that are out there. And as it's starting to, PE and some of the others are coming in, they're numbers driven and everything else. And there's nothing wrong with PE, believe me. But I really think that that's one of the reasons that I've stayed almost 40 years in the same industry is because of the people that are there. Even if they don't do business with me, I feel like that I'm a part of something bigger than myself. And I know you've been CEOs of companies and industrial companies and you're coaching and you're consulting with a lot of people in our industry. In fact, I think you're speaking at the Mechanical Contractors Association meeting this year. Congratulations on that. Yes, I am. Yes, I am. And I'm looking forward to seeing so many people there. Yeah. Yeah. Let me talk about this whole PE thing and so forth. First of all, let's count it as an honor that private equity firms are looking at people in our space. Because, again, they wouldn't be looking at our space unless they felt there was opportunity. And that says that maybe you're the second generation owner of your business, but now your kids just don't want to take it. It's time to do something. Maybe you're the first generation. Maybe you're the third generation. Count it an honor that PE firms are talking to you. Now, PE firms do a real service because here's one of the challenges. It is so easy for someone who works in their business. I've had my company now for 26 years, I think it is. It's hard for me to not be part of it. So as a result, I don't see it. I don't see it for what it's fully worth. So it's good when somebody, when you've got a firm, you've got a company that you've been in business for 30 or 40 years, a couple of generations. You don't realize what you have. And so when somebody comes in from the outside, that's great. That's outstanding. Because here's the whole thing. We see things through one lens and customers see it through another lens. Suppliers we work with see it through another lens. And potential investors see it through another lens. Thank goodness. Because that makes us better. That makes this industry better. Yeah, I 100% agree with you. as Everflow has been bought by private equity. And it was probably the best thing that could happen. We took them from 65 to 155 million, but the systems didn't keep up. And if those people that I had hired, which was about 18 or 20, this is their opportunity to take it to the whole new level. It's also, talking about PE, let's throw AI in there because that's the other change that's happening. And what are your thoughts about that and how that affects the founders and the businesses that are out there now? And how do you think that's integrated? It affects it in so many ways. There are so many great tools out, so many great foundational tools that can help any business run. But you look at the efficiency, the least bit of AI. We'll say I'm running an HVAC company, and I've got six trucks out there. And I have probably got these trucks running all over town. and with any kind of a simple AI program, I can suddenly begin routing my trucks in a much more efficient manner. I go back years ago, EPS instituted a thing where their trucks only turn right. Their trucks only turn right. Because they found that if their trucks have to turn left on a street, they have to wait for traffic. It slows them down. So by reconfiguring their routes, going right only, it actually allowed them to make more deliveries per hour. So I think about this, if I'm a guy and I've got six trucks, eight trucks, and I can find a better way to schedule my trucks around town and so forth. And I can reduce windshield. Because when I'm doing windshield time, I'm not making money. I'm not making money. Those are simple things. And also, how do I set my trucks up? How do I set my trucks up? Again, all of these things. And I'll take a lesson out of the bakery business. Oh, this is scary. There was a bakery I was working with years ago. and every morning at 3 a.m. in the morning, these 50, 60 trucks rolled out of the bakery and they had all this product in the back and they're delivering it to stores and restaurants and so forth. And they'd come back at the end of the day, many of their trucks still half full because they just couldn't get the loads right and they were understocking in some places, overstocking in other places, etc. And it took just basic computer systems to be able to, Okay, let's make sure we load these trucks right. And it's the same thing. How many times have we seen a guy be out on a job site and he's too fit and short? So what's he do? Right? And that's always what I call, that's the quick trip. That's the quick trip. No, it's not the quick trip. It's the trip to quick trip. Because they're going to go pick up a couple fittings someplace, but they're going to stop off at quick trip or racetrack or Wawa or something like that and pick up a couple of hot dogs and soda and so forth. But it's so inefficient. And it's just incredible, the opportunities. I spoke at Hardy this past year about the integration of HVAC and plumbing. And it's funny, so many people in our industry still refuse to think that there's going to be an integration there. And you take a look at what AI is doing. And one of the things, Jason Sullivan is a really good friend, Distro AI. and Jason always talks about it's not something that replaces people but when he started looking at this he looked at it as the industry's aging out and he looked at the counter guys that were there that were going to be gone in three years and all that knowledge is gone so true I remember when I took over a distribution facility and I had no clue what I was doing and I had to go work the counter because there was nobody else to work the counter because the company I took over I was asked to come in and run basically i was part of a pe firm that came in the not the institutional knowledge quit and it's wow suddenly i'm working the counter and i'm getting my head handed to me because i have no clue what a three-quarter inch what is a valve what's 30p i had no clue what i was doing and this is the challenge within the industry because we suffer in this industry with with an aging workforce. Now, I really do believe AI and so forth in the trend of college and trade schools. I tell you what, right now, being in this industry is a sweet spot. Oh, wow. Because I look at so many people that are being challenged in that typical white-collar role because of AI. I got to still have somebody turning that wrench. Well, and somebody that turns the wrench, but then somebody that's willing to learn. And one of the things that we looked at in the first segment, we had a guy that, his name is Marlon Mueller. Love you Marlon. He's out there somewhere. But he was from Iowa and he had a family farm. And when the farm crisis happened all the farms were being taken up and he had to figure out how to save the family farm But he said I had to stop figuring out how to plant crops and I had to figure out how money works And I really think I bring that up more because I think that there's a huge opportunity within our industry, both at the trades level and the wholesale level to bring people in and train them, but to train them about finances and financials and becoming entrepreneurs, which is something that a lot of our colleges are not doing. Oh, huge. And that's why PE firms were initially attracted to HVAC because you got those six-month services. You got that semi-annual, got to come out and service the system. Services creates that recurring revenue, which is what PE firms love. And this is some of the basic things when you talk about finance, when you talk about setting up a business. I've got to create a business that allows me to have as much sustainable recurring revenue as possible. Because this is where I can now begin to really factor in what's my cash management. What can I really afford to spend in terms of new equipment? Can I bring on additional people? But if I don't have recurring revenue, I become much more susceptible to shifts in the industry. I'll give you a classic example. I'll pull it from the landscaping industry. So many people in the landscaping industry, they go into this big effort of putting in landscape. We're going to do this landscaping. But you've got to make sure that you're getting the servicing, that weekly servicing to go along with it. But here's the challenge. in so many areas of the country. That's only a five-month proposition, six-month proposition. So what's funny is that these guys have beat themselves up to no profit in this industry. But where do they make their profit? Snow removal, snow removal. I've seen more people in the landscaping business. You're not in the landscaping business. You're in the snow removal business. That's where you're making your cash. But again, it's understanding what's my business model and how do I optimize it? How can I maximize it? Don't try to be all people. What do you see? Because there was something that came out last week from Watsco. I think you're familiar. They're the big HVAC guys that said that their digital transactions is over 65% of their business now. What are your thoughts with that part? That's only going to increase. And in so many other segments of this space that we get to call home, it's still only 15% or 20%. So there's a tremendous amount of upside. Now, does that replace us? No, it does not replace us. What it does is it actually makes us more valuable. Because if you stop and think about it, if I am no longer racing around doing stupid stuff, I can focus my time doing more value-added service. I can really be the technician that comes in on site on this critical issue. And what does that do? that makes me more valuable. That means my hourly rate can go up. That's excellent for me as a person, as an employer. That's excellent because now what I have is I now have the ability that I can really invest in maybe say five master technicians instead of 10 junior folks because I don't need as many junior folks. Now, what does this do? It does create a little bit of a gap because as my master technicians retire, leave, who's going to fill that gap? So I'm still going to have to have some sort of an entry-level piece, and this is a gap that the industry is going to have to figure out. Again, it's just changing how we fill this employment gap that is existing in the industry. And with, I think there were 800, private equity bought 800 trades companies last year, probably more than that, I would think. And then with a lot of those people aging out, I think the biggest issue is people. It's not only being able to keep your people, but it's the retain your people. And I think there's such an opportunity, whether you're a PE company or not, to invest back in your people so you become the go-to place to be able to work. What are your thoughts on that? That's huge because, again, we, the industry, have not invested in people much at all. We really haven't. We have created, historically, a culture that we just eat people, right? The new kid, we just rip them apart. and I think what's happening is we're now starting to realize that no we have to invest in people I was with a company the other day and it was amazing all of the managers are going through a tremendous expenditure participating in a mind thought management style training program This was like, this is like PhD level. And these are managers in our space. And I go, wow, that's an indication that we're starting to see some change. Because at the end of the day, the most valuable asset any company has is their people. It's their people. I know. And I had that framework that I had put together. And I realized that I actually have built a system on that. But I met a friend of mine who was actually on my second podcast. It's called Inspirational Operating Systems. And we just really connected. And his name's Eric Heim. And Eric had built this business out and he started at Home Depot, stocking shelves, ended up becoming a senior VP, went to four different companies. And he always was chasing the dollar. And then he ended up losing his family over it. And now he's redone his life and he's got a new family and he's built the inspirational operating system, which takes you from your personal goals and dreams to the company's goals and dreams and puts those together. But what I loved about him is that he has a measurement tool for your own personal life, but for the business life as well. And I know that's something you and I both believe in. that's key that's key because this is a sad comment i'm about to make i see too many owners out there who have been successful but they're more proud of their boat their rv the second home they've got the fact they're going to vegas again the fact that they're doing this they're all their toys their jet skis all their toys and the whole time they're lamenting how they can't keep people. They're lamenting how they're punchless, they get done, and they got to come back in and redo things and so forth. And it's a shame because all they've been doing is pulling money out of the business to support their lifestyle when they really should have been investing in the business. And ultimately, they could have created a better lifestyle for not only themselves, but all their people too. And how about the founders that are out there that built these businesses and they do it all on their own and they've never really invested in people and now they're having heart attacks and stress and everything else. What's the message that you have for that group? That's a whole nother issue because again, this is the founders. I'm the only one who can do this. I'm the only one who can do this. So they're the one, they start out with two trucks, one truck, then they went to two trucks and they do the scheduling, they do the ordering, they do the paint they do everything now then maybe it's their wife comes in or their girlfriend comes in and does books they don't have a clue what yeah and it just and unfortunately the business never gets out of the first no i never gets out of the basement yeah it's just insane and then they wonder why they can't attract people and the people they do attract are questionable because those are the only type of people they're going to attract. Yeah, and they don't work. They don't think the people care as much as that. I've heard that one so many times. I've got a buddy of mine, Sam McCone. He owns a medical business, and he's buying into the HVAC market. We've become friends over the last couple months. And Sam says that, I want to buy businesses, but if I'm going to go buy a million-dollar business or a two-million-dollar business, there's one guy that's running it. He said, I'm not looking for a job. I'm looking for somebody that I can go and buy a business from. I can have somebody run it. And I think those small companies are really in a difficult place. They are in a difficult place. I've got a friend that is a West Point graduate, was in the military for 20 years, incredibly smart, incredibly gifted, and incredible just talent towards people. and he has bought three HVAC companies and he's rolling them up. And it's amazing what he says. We get together occasionally. And he says, it's amazing the amount of labor I'm able to take out of the system because I've got all the basically deadwood people. Who knows where it was? Somebody's cousin, somebody's brother, somebody's friend. And what's interesting is he had a company come in and do some customer evaluation. And our customer satisfaction scores have gone up dramatically, just gone up dramatically. We have fewer people, we're paying them twice as well as we were before, far more efficient, and our customer satisfaction scores in other words and ultimately he says it too early to tell but I know this is going to turn into both customer retention and customer referral That huge That huge And I know that a lot of what going on now are the technicians and trying to teach the technicians to be the salespeople. And it's almost like you flip back to the conversation that you had earlier about service. You want to have a little conversations with those technicians now that are being asked to become salespeople and what that really means oh that that's oh i provide customer service before i go in the house i put on booties or my shoes come on people let's get real yeah it's just it's this is not this is a people business and now unfortunately we have people who are very good technicians who unfortunately should not be customer facing. Okay. Those are the ones we put on the mechanical side. Those are the ones we put on the commercial side. Okay. Yeah, there you go. Let's not put them into R&R. Let's keep them over there. We'll have them doing the midnight hospital work. Okay. Okay. Because again, it is. I've experienced this. Now, I've experienced this in other industries. There was an industry I was working with. What's the energy industry? Oil and gas industry. and the joke we used to say that if you have a personality we're going to put you into a sales role because that's people there just did not have personality and that's a pretty sad comment but so it exists in other industries you know so now i'm going to take it a little bit different i'm in a industry and have been working with companies that they can buy what i have from about 10 different sources. And I think you start to hear it and I consult a lot and people call me and ask me if it's a commodity and always say, there's no such thing as a commodity. I want you to speak to that because I really think that's, and you probably see that with some of your consulting in places where it becomes a commodity because we make it that way. And any thoughts to those people? Yeah. And those companies? We could be here for two hours. First of all, you are allowing it to become a commodity because you're using the commodity in your own mind. If the salesperson believes it's a commodity, it's going to be a commodity real quick. First of all, what you're selling is not the product. You are not selling the SKU. You're not selling this. You're not selling this filter. You're not selling this tank. You're not selling this pipe, whatever it might be. No, you're selling an outcome. And you as a salesperson have to look far enough downstream. And what you're doing is you're looking at what I call TCO and TBO, total cost of ownership. And that's fine. We've talked about that. I install this system. What's going to be the total cost of ownership over the next five years, 10 years? What's the total benefit of ownership? What's the benefit that the customer, the one who's actually going to own this building, run the system, is going to know that this system is going to work 24-7 for the next six years? What's this company going to, what's this customer going to say? or what are they going to do if suddenly something breaks down and they call you and you don't answer the phone? In other words, there's a whole host of benefits that come up. So what we have to do is we have to look downstream because at the end of the day, think about this. You drive down the street. We'll say you want a cup of coffee. There's probably a dozen places within a mile you can find a cup of coffee, whether it be a Starbucks, whether it be a McDonald's, whether it be a Quick Trip, Wawa, and probably they're all different prices, right? They're all different You don't sit there and say, oh, I want to shop for the absolute cheapest company. No, because there's something else. There's something else that you're doing. And this whole thing that salespeople, you have to bundle what you sell up into the context of everything else. Oh, you just hit my sweet spot. Bundle. So explain that. Explain what you mean by bundle. Yeah, because here's the whole thing. I'm not buying just one SKU. I'm buying a whole series of SKUs. And oh, by the way, you're going to need it at Tuesday at 10 a.m. Okay, we're going to have it there Tuesday at 10 a.m. And oh, by the way, you know you're going to have it there Tuesday at 10 a.m. because I've delivered 85 other loads to your sites over the previous five years, and we've always been there. Oh, there was one time we didn't, and you know what? You called me, and I personally brought that over to you. Remember that? Yeah, yeah. In other words, you provide a level of security. You provide that, hey, if we are out of stock on this, we're going to be able to backfill this with this. We've always got backstop. Oh, by the way, we ship from this location, but if for some reason we don't, you know that we have another facility in another town 30 miles away, and I can get a truck over there with you. In other words, you are bundling all of the services. Oh, by the way, from an invoicing standpoint, one of the examples I love to use, and I'll go and throw out a name. I'll throw it out. Granger. Granger, right? They supply everything, right? You can say that they were the original Amazon. And are they the cheapest? No. Why do customers use them? Because it's single invoicing. It's easy to do. Yeah. See? All these other things. It's the same thing with Amazon. Why do we order stuff from Amazon? Or I hear guys say, I need six things and I'm just going to run to Home Depot or Lowe's, right? And why did they do that? Because for them, it was easy. And at the end of the day, we have to find out what is the satisfaction that the customer is looking for. Because every customer has a different business model. And I was with a customer the other day. And their business model is that everything that they buy, raw material-wise, just gets an upcharge and gets passed through to the customer. They're much more price resistant. They don't really care about price because they just add on an upcharge. In fact, they even made the comment. They said, price is a little bit higher. It's okay because we tack on an upcharge to that. Customer doesn't see what that upcharge is, and we've never had a problem. There are other customers that do it on a full bid, totally get that, but you've got to get far enough down. Because here's the other thing. What you sell, what's the installation process? why do some people use Milwaukee tools and some people use other tools because it's what they like I tell you what, you and I could go forever on this there's something that I have in the book it's called a yellow pad moment and that's when my mom used to send me upstairs when I would come home and get cut or somebody said I needed to go to special needs she'd send me upstairs with a yellow pad and I'd come back down and write all the reasons that what I was going to do differently. We try to end this segment with a yellow pad moment. And so I'm asking Mark Hunter, what is your yellow pad moment? My yellow pad moment is years ago when I went to a very set routine as to how I start the day. I absolutely believe I start the day with a very set routine because I found that if I start the day, it's amazing how much better the day is. too many people stumble into the day and they never get hold of it. I have a very set routine. And what I found, every top performer has a very set way they start the day. That is excellent. Now, the next question I'm going to ask is that usually people that are listening to this broadcast, when they turn it off, they say, boy, I wish Hugh would have asked mark this question. So what is that question that we have not shared that you feel like the audience needs to know? Yeah, what's the future of sales? Are salespeople even going to be needed five years from now? And I say, yes, they are. AI is not going to replace us. AI supports us. AI is going to take out some tasks, but it's not going to replace us. We are needed more than ever because the marketplace is so confused. There's so many options, so many variables. We and our expertise and our insight is needed more than ever out there. So relax, people. This is a great industry to be in sales. And invest in yourself. We've been doing it for years. Mark, if somebody wants to get a hold of you, and I'm sure there's going to be plenty of people that do, what's the best way to do that? The best way is I'm known as the sales hunter. Yeah. Hunter is my real last name. I did not change it. So you can just go to the, that's where you can find my books. You can go to Amazon. I'm all over LinkedIn. Although a lot of people in our space really aren't on LinkedIn a lot, but I'm on YouTube, a lot of videos on YouTube, but just go to the website, the sales hunter.com. That's awesome. And as far as when it comes to Mark Hunter, if you're looking for him, you can always give me a call and I'll make sure that I connect the two of you. He's a really good friend of mine. I will tell you this right now that I've been in this business for a long time. There's very few people that I've met like Mark Hunter that just exude integrity and really care. Mark, I want to say something to you as I went through, a few people know that I went through stage four cancer two and a half years ago. Mark Hunter was one of those people that would call me about once a week just to check in on me. he's the real deal people and I'm going to tell you when it comes to our industry I'm just glad you're a part of it Mark and thank you thank you and I'm blessed to know you and this industry is full of great people every great trade organization was built by someone who chose people over price blue color smart exists for that leader if you found value here subscribe and share this with the operator who's ready for the next level. Built different. Trades proven. Hugh Hornsby, voice of the trades.