From Paint Crews to Software: Learning the Language of Money

Hugh Hornsby: [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] [00:00:25] [00:00:30] Welcome to Blue Collar Smart, built different, underdog proven, and [00:00:35] trades tested. Last week when I was at the grocery store, somebody said, [00:00:40] "Hugh, what are you up to?" And I told them, "I'm building a podcast. It's called Blue Collar Smart." [00:00:45] And they asked me, "Why would you call it that?" And I went on to tell them that at [00:00:50] the age of 10, I fell on my head, was diagnosed with epilepsy, had a learning [00:00:55] disability, and I had to start looking at things from a very different eyeglass. In the [00:01:00] ninth grade, my teacher tried to send me to special needs, and so I never really fit into [00:01:05] anybody's box. But Blue Collar Smart is about those people that look at the world from a [00:01:10] very different place. I have got a special guest today, James [00:01:15] Hatfield, and James is Blue Collar Smart through and through. [00:01:20] James, welcome to the show. James Hatfield: I'm glad to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited for the conversation today. Hugh Hornsby: [00:01:25] James, t- tell us a little bit about you and when... I always try to [00:01:30] drop back into the early years on, on, uh- You know, something that [00:01:35] happened to you or something that you did that kinda started you out, uh, before [00:01:40] we, we get you to the point of when we, we talk about the success that you've had. James Hatfield: Yeah, [00:01:45] I think, you know, family started me out, right? So my father built the house that I [00:01:50] was born in. He's great with his hands. And my grandfather built the house that he lived in, and I hung out with my [00:01:55] grandfather a good bit. You know, the summers were spent with him building homes and, [00:02:00] uh, just working with my hands. And my grandfather came from very humble beginnings. You [00:02:05] know, he, uh, his father died, um, when he was young. He was 16, and he was the oldest, so he [00:02:10] had to drop out of high school to go work at a tire shop. And so he, uh, his dreams are [00:02:15] also very humble. So he'd always tell me, "James, you know, when you're, you're out of schooling, you know, what I [00:02:20] want you to do is I want you to go and, and paint the highways, man. If you go paint the highways..." I was like, "The [00:02:25] lines on the highways, Grandpa?" He's like, "The lines on the highways, son. If you did that, you'll never miss a meal." [00:02:30] And so when I got out of schooling, I said, "Grandpa, I can't afford that machine that paints [00:02:35] the highways, but I can go paint homes." He said, "Well, that'll do." And so I ended up starting a painting [00:02:40] company, commercial, residential, and I did that with many crews. I thought I would do that until the [00:02:45] day I died or fell off a ladder and died. I, I just knew that this was my lot, and I [00:02:50] loved, uh, being an entrepreneur. I love being a business owner, and I love making customers happy. And, [00:02:55] uh, you know, that, that's what I really enjoyed. But, uh, life has a way of throwing you little curve balls, and I [00:03:00] got a curve ball, uh, with my business. But, you know, my beginnings are from my family. Hugh Hornsby: And [00:03:05] so that curve ball, uh, I think it was, um, when you tried to [00:03:10] understand the financial, you know, the financial sides of it. Can you, can you talk about that a [00:03:15] little bit? Because I think that was a changing point in your life, um, that, that [00:03:20] put you in a position to, to go to college and try to understand, you know, the [00:03:25] accounting side. James Hatfield: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was very humbling, right? You go get a bookkeeper [00:03:30] to make sure you got your, your books in order so you can hit payroll. And, uh, they'd speak English to [00:03:35] me, and I, I don't understand what these pr- these people are saying. They were using fancy words and things I [00:03:40] didn't, you know, grow up learning. And so I knew for me as a business owner that that might not be [00:03:45] so, so good for me. And I didn't want to be taken advantage of. Not that my bookkeeper would take advantage of me, I just When you [00:03:50] don't speak the language sometimes, and business owners and I'm sure some folks listening will relate that. I [00:03:55] talked to one the other day. He's like, "Yeah, sometimes I sit in those financial meetings and I'm nodding my head, but I don't get it, [00:04:00] and I'm just like, 'Do we have enough to make payroll?' You know? Um, that's all they care about." So I ended up [00:04:05] going back, uh, to business school. I ran my company, uh, for business and accounting [00:04:10] so I could learn the language. And while I was doing that, I ended up meeting my current business partner. We've been [00:04:15] together 23 years, and now he was getting his MBA from Duke University. At the same time, Tim [00:04:20] Cook, who just retired from Apple, was getting, uh, his degree, and we got connected. [00:04:25] And sure enough, he was working on this little thing called AI, but we didn't call it AI [00:04:30] 23 years ago. We just called it, like, software as a service, right? And so he could take [00:04:35] my income statement and balance sheet, run it through the system he built, and it would tell me in [00:04:40] plain language how I was doing as a business owner. And I looked at this and I was like, "Well, this is some kind of [00:04:45] witchcraft, man. How did you do this?" He's-- "And you're-- This is brilliant." And I said, "I love it. You [00:04:50] are solving the problem that I got. I, I just think this is the greatest thing." And he said, "Well, do you think you could sell the [00:04:55] software?" I'm like, "Well, I don't own a computer. I use carbon copy [00:05:00] sheets with the pink, yellow, and white carbon copy sheets. I got a Nextel walkie-talkie, and I play with water guns [00:05:05] and paint guns. I don't know if I can sell software." And that's really when my journey started changing, [00:05:10] uh, when I started selling software from something I believed in. And my goodness, um, as I know [00:05:15] that we'll fast-forward the movie a bit, but, um, some defining moments, uh, that kind of got me off the [00:05:20] ladder. Hugh Hornsby: I kind of like that part because there's so many people that, uh You know, [00:05:25] they, they, they get stuck in one place or another, and for some reason, [00:05:30] uh, you know, and you and I talked about the faith side of it, um, you know, [00:05:35] sometimes, sometimes God reaches down and, and says, "Hey, this is where you [00:05:40] need to be." Do you think that's what happened? James Hatfield: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Uh, because when I went to business school, that's [00:05:45] when, um... I grew up atheist, but, um, that's where I, I actually got met [00:05:50] and some girls in my business classes invited me out to church and changed that history for [00:05:55] me, too. So I think, you know, uh, it's something much more than just myself taking me to, [00:06:00] to school, uh, to take care of my companies. But it certainly, that also changed my, my course in history, too, and I [00:06:05] started some nonprofits as well a- around that. Hugh Hornsby: And you b- you built that company up, and you [00:06:10] end up se- selling it to, uh... Can you, can you tell a little bit about that company and what you, what [00:06:15] you did? James Hatfield: Yeah. So, um, I started selling software, okay, and that was new. Uh, [00:06:20] but we took that company from nothing to Inc. 500 for three years in a row, being [00:06:25] we're one of the fastest-growing companies in the US for three years consecutively. And then it kept [00:06:30] growing, and we ended up selling it, uh, to private equity, and it's a $6 billion company that [00:06:35] runs all the banks in the country for all the lending and commercial lending. It's called ALLLL. [00:06:40] But, uh, uh, it's still in existence today, and people that I hired and, are there, and, uh, we did very, [00:06:45] very well. Um, so that, that was quite a ride. Hugh Hornsby: So what do you think your grandfather would've said [00:06:50] about all that? James Hatfield: I think he'd be speechless. He's like, "Well, are you still gonna go paint the highways like I [00:06:55] told you?" Hugh Hornsby: That's right. You can afford the, you can afford the machine now, right? You James Hatfield: afford the [00:07:00] paint, yeah. Hugh Hornsby: It's funny. Yeah. I wish, wish my mom and dad were around to see what I'm doing [00:07:05] now, too. That would, that would be pretty neat. So then the next steps for you were, [00:07:10] was that you, um, you founded another company, and you, you, you [00:07:15] wanna talk a little bit about that? James Hatfield: Oh, yeah. So, um, what they don't tell you after you sell your business, I [00:07:20] know some folks listening, I know one day you'll wanna exit, um, what they don't tell you is that if you don't have [00:07:25] something to wake up to- You get a little bit stir crazy, so you, you need something. I mean, the, the little white golf [00:07:30] ball is great, and getting a bigger boat, fine. But, you know, I'm a builder. You know, I like to build [00:07:35] stuff. So when we have a bunch of capital, instead of starting from scratch again, we [00:07:40] decided, hey, let's go buy a company this time. So we looked all over the world, and we found a [00:07:45] company in Vancouver, Canada, and we just fell in love with it, and we, we bought the company six years [00:07:50] ago, and it has deals with live video. So all kinds of things. I mean, we did the Super Bowl the last [00:07:55] four years. If you scan a QR code and they put you on the jumbotron, that's our stuff. Like, during COVID, we [00:08:00] powered the NBA Bubble and all kinds of different things, um, with live video. [00:08:05] And, uh, we bought that company six years ago, and what ended up happening to us, and eventually how [00:08:10] our paths collide, is the chief of police in Washington, D.C. reached out to our [00:08:15] company to reinvent the nation's 911 phone call. And the idea [00:08:20] was we all carry around two to five cameras in our pocket, so when we call [00:08:25] 911, how do we get into the phone camera so we can stream that video to [00:08:30] police car, the fire truck, or the emergency medical so they can see what they're driving into? It's called [00:08:35] situational awareness And so about four years ago, I came up with [00:08:40] an idea to be able to get into a citizen's camera with no time ... You didn't have time to [00:08:45] download an app, so there's no app, and the phone has three different channels in [00:08:50] it. One channel is to make a phone call, it's called telephony, when you call 911. But while you're [00:08:55] talking on the phone, I can send you a text message, that's SMS, and then you can ... [00:09:00] It's a, I text you a link, which you can tap, and that'll get me into your data, which gets me into your [00:09:05] camera, and now I can stream your video point to point anywhere in the world [00:09:10] between any two devices. And it had to be so easy that a citizen can use it when they are [00:09:15] compromised. And so that was four years ago. We showed it to the chief, and he loved it. He's [00:09:20] like, he couldn't believe it didn't already exist. And, uh, well, it does now. Um, and [00:09:25] so the question was like, who else could use this no app, you see what I [00:09:30] see technology? And I got introduced to this guy, 20 years in the FBI, [00:09:35] and he's taking care of the NFL team, the Tennessee Titans there in Nashville. And I'm telling him the [00:09:40] same story I'm telling you now. And he's looking at our emergency response stuff, and he goes, [00:09:45] "James, I got the stupidest question." He's like, "Can I just text my guy [00:09:50] across my arena and he can show me what's going on with my facility so I don't have to hop in my little [00:09:55] golf cart? 'Cause that would save me all kinds of time if I could just see the issues going on." [00:10:00] And that was a, a big eureka moment, because it reminded me of my Nextel [00:10:05] walkie-talkie that I used in my contracting, my painting company. Do, do you remember those Nextels, [00:10:10] Hugh? Hugh Hornsby: Oh, yeah. I do remember the Nextels. Um, I [00:10:15] remember the bag phones. I, I, yeah, I, I go back a ways. Um, [00:10:20] so is this a certain type of phone? Is it, is it just done on a standard phone that, that's, [00:10:25] that's used now or is it a phone that you guys develop? James Hatfield: Any, any phone, any [00:10:30] smartphone. I mean, your iPhone, your Android phone, it works with, with all that. [00:10:35] And you just, you just click on the text that you get, and then you're on. You're off to the races. The video starts [00:10:40] streaming and goes right to the police car, um, or whomever it needs to be routed to. [00:10:45] Hugh Hornsby: Wow. So and, and you say, I think you said that it works with [00:10:50] ServiceTitan and some of the others that are out there? James Hatfield: Oh, yeah. So check this out. The next thing that happened [00:10:55] is I got introduced to this really smart guy in the moving industry, of all industries, moving [00:11:00] boxes, moving families or businesses, and he's looking at it. I mean, he, this guy runs conferences. He's a [00:11:05] big thought leader. And he's looking at all my stuff and he says, "Hey James, you are sitting [00:11:10] on liquid gold, buddy." I said, "What, what are you talking about?" He's like, "Well, the most expensive thing I [00:11:15] do as an, a business owner is I put one of my hourly wage guys and one of my... in, [00:11:20] inside one of my trucks and burning up my diesel or my fuel driving all around town giving [00:11:25] estimates. And sometimes people find out how much it costs to move their family or their business and they get a little [00:11:30] sticker shock and they decide to do it themself. Well, that wasn't a free estimate for me as the [00:11:35] business owner. It wasted a lot of time and money and effort." He's like, "What I'm gonna do is I'll send a text [00:11:40] message and now that person can show me, in this case, the house or the business that needs to be moved, [00:11:45] and if they get sticker shock, I never had to drive out [00:11:50] Alternatively, it could be a small job, like moving an apartment, and he's like, "I, I can bid that without [00:11:55] driving out. You just show me the apartment, I can bid it and win it." And the one-- the final one is, "I [00:12:00] see it, it's a big job, I know they got money, it is worth my trip in the truck." So now I just [00:12:05] drive out and I bid that thing and I said... This was three and a half years ago. I was like, "Will you pay [00:12:10] me American money for this? I love selling usernames and passwords." He's like, "Oh, yeah." And so now, as you [00:12:15] mentioned, our stuff is under the hood of ServiceTitan, Jobber, HouseCall [00:12:20] Pro, JobNimbus, Albiware, and we're powering all of these different platforms for [00:12:25] these live video you see what I see. It's the next [00:12:30] walkie-talkie, now videos, and saving people trips in the truck and getting eyes on the job or talking to [00:12:35] their staff member. Um, and it's growing like a weed. I mean, we're one of the nation's fastest growing [00:12:40] companies right now. Hugh Hornsby: That's a great story. Um, a couple questions and, and [00:12:45] change it a little bit. What we-- I wanna come back to, to, um, [00:12:50] LifeSwitch, uh, a little bit later. But, you know, since you've been in the [00:12:55] industry and you've, you kinda lived in the industry, um, you know, and [00:13:00] as we s- start taking a look at trades and what's going on [00:13:05] today, you know, it used to be that it was a terrible thing if you didn't get a, if you didn't get [00:13:10] a h- a college degree, you know, you, you just weren't gonna make money. A [00:13:15] lot of those kids are coming out with 60, 60 and $100,000 in debt. [00:13:20] Um, and yet the trades now are, are starting to be looked at as a place for, [00:13:25] you know, an alternative place for these people to go. Do you, do you have any thoughts [00:13:30] on what's happening there? And, um, you know, what do you kinda see happening, [00:13:35] uh, within the trades, you know, over the next few years? James Hatfield: Yeah. Well, I definitely [00:13:40] love the trades. And in fact, um, I fully expect my son to be in [00:13:45] the trades when, when he's out of school. Um, and I don't expect that he will go to college. [00:13:50] Um, I, I expect that to go right into a trade or apprentice for a trade or start [00:13:55] a business, um, that's in the trades. Um, what I have seen, uh, for [00:14:00] the trades right now is guys learning how to be a business owner as well [00:14:05] as being a good contractor, or vice versa. Someone might be a very good business owner, [00:14:10] but the work that they do is not as up to par as they need, 'cause you need a good product. I don't care what [00:14:15] you sell. I don't care, trades or whatever. If you don't have a good product to sell, then you can put [00:14:20] lipstick on the pig and it, it ain't gonna work. You know? Like, it, it ain't gonna work. So I always encourage [00:14:25] tradespeople to be excellent at their craft and hire people who can do so or train people up Right? [00:14:30] Because at the end of the day, your product is everything, and in the age of information, good news travels [00:14:35] fast and so does bad news. So right, if you got good... If you're honest and you do great work and you're, [00:14:40] you know, go at a... Not even the rate. Sometimes the rates don't matter as much. People, you know, are, are challenging [00:14:45] all the rates. I, I've got plenty of guys that they're like, "James, I'm not the most, I'm not the least expensive guy. I'm, in fact, I'm [00:14:50] one of the most expensive, and people choose me because they know I'm gonna do good work." So [00:14:55] doing good work, I think, really can separate you from [00:15:00] most everybody, right? So that's where it's like, hey, let's start there. Let's do good work. Then [00:15:05] let's learn how to run a business, you know? Let's le- and if you're gonna be the owner, of course. I mean, if you're in the [00:15:10] trades and you don't wa- have any interest in the business side, no worries. Do great work, right? [00:15:15] But if you have interest in also owning the business, running the business, doing the business, then [00:15:20] it's learning how to be a good business owner, which is being a good boss, doing what you [00:15:25] say you're gonna do, you know, documenting all your work, uh, making sure you got your money [00:15:30] together, you know, networking well, educating yourself. It is a big undertaking when you [00:15:35] go from, "I just wanna do the trades," to, "I wanna do the trades and run the business." Now you're really asking for it. [00:15:40] Um, but the upside and the potential there, being an entrepreneur is the most [00:15:45] free thing you can do, free- feeling of freedom that you can do, I think, as an [00:15:50] individual, and thank goodness we live in a country where we can do that. Hugh Hornsby: Well, and you kinda figured it out. [00:15:55] Uh, it's as, as the challenge that you had was the financial acumen of it [00:16:00] all. You made a decision because we're... I, I just had the, uh, [00:16:05] CEO of the PHCC on. He, he, he came on last Thursday, [00:16:10] I think it was, and, um, you know, we, we actually talked about [00:16:15] that, and he talked about, um, you know, he, he called it the gap, [00:16:20] the middle point where, you know, people come in, they learn how to do the trades, [00:16:25] then, then all of a sudden it's that middle part of trying to figure out the financial [00:16:30] acumen, not only to be a business owner, but to manage your own money so that when you become 40, you [00:16:35] don't have to be climbing under a house again. So, um, any, any thoughts to that? James Hatfield: [00:16:40] Yeah. Um, being smart, right? You don't have to go and take out, "Oh, I gotta get funded," or, "I gotta do this." [00:16:45] You could do a lot with a lot less than you think. Right? Um, I mean, you can have [00:16:50] good tools, but they don't have to be brand new tools. Have a good truck, but it don't have to be a brand new truck. [00:16:55] Like, you start humble. I find that the, the business owners that are [00:17:00] humble usually also surround themself with guys that have made it, right? Their, their quote unquote [00:17:05] board of directors, their consulting team. They're guys that are in their corner, and you don't have to go make the [00:17:10] same mistakes that someone made who might be 20, 30, 40 years ahead of you. So [00:17:15] networking is huge. Like you said, I just got back, um, from [00:17:20] being in Savannah, Georgia, uh, with all of these, uh, with Patch Master. It's a franchise. And [00:17:25] all these folks, some guys are in their first year. They were... They just became a contractor. They're learning how [00:17:30] to do drywall. And some guys that have been doing it 15, 20 years that have been doing drywall forever.[00:17:35] Well, the beautiful thing about them having a conference is the guy in his first year can now become friends with the [00:17:40] guy in his 15th year, and he can take a cue from that, and that's a huge [00:17:45] deal to be able to learn from somebody else. Hugh Hornsby: One of the things that, that, uh, the [00:17:50] conversation I had last week with the CEO of the PHCC [00:17:55] Association is they've got a pr- they've got programs out there with [00:18:00] PHCC, which is kind of, it's called Earn As You Learn. And [00:18:05] one of... What he was talking about is that there's a lot of these trade schools that are out there right now that [00:18:10] f- they're not really certified. Um, and that, um, [00:18:15] with the industry kind of aging out and a lot [00:18:20] of the companies that are out there, uh, somebody gave me a number [00:18:25] last week that out of 13, you know, out of 14 companies, 13 of the smaller [00:18:30] companies aren't really positioned, th- haven't positioned themselves to sell, [00:18:35] so they end up having to close their doors. And I just wanted to, you know, [00:18:40] y- you being a, um, you know, somebody that's in the industry [00:18:45] for as long as you have been, do, do you have any thoughts on that? James Hatfield: Yeah. Um, [00:18:50] so I think, like, when I get in front of a lot of different business owners and they're thinking about, "Hey, what's [00:18:55] gonna happen when it's time for me to exit?" Well, I need to retire or I need to hand this [00:19:00] off. The problem that we've seen is that, yes, there can be a shortage of talent out there to [00:19:05] replace you or someone to come buy your business, but really, I think a lot of [00:19:10] times what I see a lot of is that the business owner doesn't discharge or hand off the [00:19:15] duties. They don't make themselves redundant. And there's a beautiful book, I, I recommend it to all business [00:19:20] owners. It's called Making Money Is Killing Your Business, and what it's gonna teach you [00:19:25] about is freedom mapping. And what freedom mapping is, is you're [00:19:30] going through everything you do, you know, whatever trade you have, and there's a step-by-step process [00:19:35] to get it done right, okay? And you painstakingly just get one long, [00:19:40] you know, document, and it doesn't have to be fancy, but write out what you [00:19:45] do, and that's called your business process. And from there, who does it? [00:19:50] And maybe it's your name next to everything. You do everything, right? Or you do half and another guy [00:19:55] does half, or maybe you don't do any of it. And what you do is you start putting a name next to [00:20:00] each step in the process, and that is the owner of that step. [00:20:05] So it might be a 12-step process, and you're gonna tell yourself, if you own all of [00:20:10] them, or a team member or you together, how can we make this process more efficient? [00:20:15] What can we do that maybe combines two steps or improves it? And the [00:20:20] person who owns that step should be the one who's thinking about how to make it better, if they can make it better [00:20:25] at all Then what you're gonna wanna do is if your name is next to half of [00:20:30] those steps, you're gonna have to find a way to get your name off of those [00:20:35] steps, whether it's teaching the person who needs to kn-know more of the [00:20:40] steps or hiring someone, finding someone that might be younger in the trade, apprentice, a [00:20:45] journeyman, whatever you can do to start making yourself redundant, meaning [00:20:50] you're handing it off. 'Cause a lot of times as business owners, we have a hard time handing off something [00:20:55] because we think we're the only ones that can do it, and no one's gonna do it better than me. If I don't do it, it's [00:21:00] not gonna get done, and all of the things we tell ourself. You will never be-- [00:21:05] get free, and you will never be able to sell because some private equity [00:21:10] companies, if they wanna buy you, sometimes they'll take a risk and a gamble on you. But a lot of times, [00:21:15] if it's a private equity company or another owner or even a staff member that you wanna try to raise up [00:21:20] to sell it to, they can't do it because you w- have a problem called key man problem. [00:21:25] You're too much of a key man problem. But a lot of times I find it's the owner's [00:21:30] pride or lack of, like, training up someone to replace themself. And [00:21:35] the fa- the companies I've been growing, they're some of the fastest-growing companies in the country. I try to fire [00:21:40] myself as often as I can because that means I hired someone, I trained them, and I [00:21:45] fired myself, and then I'll go find something else to do in the business, right? If not, [00:21:50] remove myself entirely from the business, which would be a great thing, and that makes a legacy [00:21:55] business. But if you're not thinking about this stuff now, it will not be a legacy business. It'll be a business that [00:22:00] closes the door, takes down the shingle, and never to be seen again. But it depends on your goal. [00:22:05] I have a guy right now, he's a plumber. He, he knows, like, when he's done, he's just shutting the door, [00:22:10] you know? But I got another guy, also a plumber. He is looking for an apprentice so he can keep [00:22:15] everything going, whether to sell it or to sell it to your employees. Your [00:22:20] employees can do owner financing. They can pay you back from the profits of the business, and you [00:22:25] can retire, and now you've uplifted those employees that they built the business, and they can [00:22:30] own it. There's so many different creative things you could do, but I would start off by the Freedom [00:22:35] Mapping or Making Money Is Killing Your Business. That book'll change your life. [00:22:40] Hugh Hornsby: That, that is awesome. I, I love that you're saying that because Dr. Sam [00:22:45] McGough was on here a couple weeks ago, and he, he is, um, [00:22:50] uh, Sam, Sam is in the, um, [00:22:55] medical clinic business over in Alabama. Uh, and, um, and he's got clinics [00:23:00] all over the country. And he, he said that he was at home one day, and the plumber came [00:23:05] in and, and told him, he said, uh You know, he looked over at the plumber and he said, "What, [00:23:10] what are, what are you doing tonight?" And the plumber said, "Well, I'm taking my jet over to, um, Gulfport, [00:23:15] Mississippi," or wherever it was. And he said, "You're, you're a plumber. [00:23:20] What, what are you doing?" And, and he said, "Well, you know, I, I just learned how [00:23:25] to run the business." And, uh, but Sam, Sam talks a- Sam [00:23:30] talks about exactly what you're saying, is that there's t- too many people as [00:23:35] he, as he takes a look at these HVAC companies, there are too many people that are out there. Maybe it's [00:23:40] a million-dollar company, maybe it's a $3 million, maybe it's fi- who knows, whatever that [00:23:45] number is, but they're founders that never figured out their way to... I [00:23:50] mean, they're running everything. And he's like, "Why would I wanna buy a business? I'm not looking for a [00:23:55] job." So it's, uh, it kind of fits with, with what you're saying. You know, [00:24:00] uh, when we were talk, talking earlier, one of the things you s- you said was about mentorship. [00:24:05] So I, I'd like you to kind of talk about that because I always talk about the who, not [00:24:10] the how. Um, I, I'd, I'd love to hear what you're saying about mentorship. And [00:24:15] I cut you off there for a second if you had something to say. James Hatfield: I love talking about mentorship [00:24:20] 'cause the first question is: how do I get mentors if you don't have them? If you already have mentors, then [00:24:25] you're, you're like, "Well, I already got mine." You know, maybe you wanna get a few more mentors. And men- [00:24:30] no one's gonna knock on your door to say, "Hey, I'm gonna be your mentor." Like, finding a mentor means that you, [00:24:35] you're gonna need to be humble. You're gonna need to ask for help, and you're needing, gonna need to [00:24:40] put yourself out there. If you're not willing to put yourself out there in this wide world, you're gonna have a hard time [00:24:45] finding mentors in this world. And the world is a small place, but it's also got a lot of fish in the [00:24:50] sea, as they say. So a lot of guys are like, "Well, how do I go about this?" There's a lot of ways [00:24:55] to go about this. We talked about it earlier. I just got back from a conference. Go to [00:25:00] conferences, go to things like BNI, go to some local, um, g- [00:25:05] gatherings, and you're gonna at first feel like a fish out of water if you're not [00:25:10] used to these kind of things 'cause you're gonna have to put your hand out, say, "Hello, my name is [00:25:15] James." That's the hardest part. I'm telling you, that's the hardest part. If you can [00:25:20] put your name out fir- you put your hand out first, say, "Hello, my name is James," that'll [00:25:25] change your life. Now, there's a way to do this also on this thing called the internet, [00:25:30] right? And there's an app which I know a lot of folks might roll their eyes on, but [00:25:35] it'll work. It's, it's put a bunch of mentors and business partners into my life. [00:25:40] It's called LinkedIn And you might not think there's a lot of contractors on [00:25:45] LinkedIn or people that would be your mentor. Well, again, they're not gonna [00:25:50] knock on your door. So you're gonna have to do this thing called give, and giving it is hard to do.[00:25:55] But I'm gonna give you the recipe to get a, a big network of people. Are you [00:26:00] ready? Here it is. You download LinkedIn, go get a nice [00:26:05] picture of yourself, take the time and get it done right. Write out who you [00:26:10] are, about, the things you've done. Write it all out. It'll, it'll take a little while, [00:26:15] but that's your kinda h- that's your homepage for people to find out who you are, because nobody [00:26:20] knows you, and you, you, you're gonna become known. And what you're gonna do every day, and this is probably too [00:26:25] much information to you, but you can do this while you're sitting on the toilet in the morning if you want to. [00:26:30] So you can do this, what I'm telling you to do while you're sitting on the toilet. All right? I know that's [00:26:35] way too much information. But when you open up that app, go to whatever industry [00:26:40] you're a part of, whatever you're part of, and put in, search for it, and tell it [00:26:45] where you live, and then start hitting this connect button. So, hey, it's [00:26:50] another plumber or another electrician or a guy on a, who runs a podcast named Hugh. [00:26:55] Right? And you go and you just hit the connect button. That's all. [00:27:00] 20 times or less a day. If you do more than 20, they, they boot you out of [00:27:05] there, right? That's too much connect- that's too much connecting. All right? 20 a day keeps the doctor away. [00:27:10] Doesn't even have to be 20, it could be 10. Go and just hit connect, connect. So that's, that's step [00:27:15] one. All right? Now what do you do? Well, you share. So you're listening [00:27:20] to a podcast right now, right, with Hugh, and he's talking about [00:27:25] previous episodes. Don't even worry about sharing this episode, go share a previous episode. Let's pay it forward. And you [00:27:30] can say, "Hey, I just listened to this episode with Hugh," and you tag [00:27:35] Hugh, "and I learned this, this, and this." And make it intelligent. [00:27:40] You know, take your time to do it, and put it out there. Maybe nobody interacts [00:27:45] with it. It doesn't matter, 'cause we're giving, not receiving. We're giving. We're, we're sharing. [00:27:50] Okay? This is sharing. And I, and I know some folks are rolling their eyes around social media, but you asked me how do I get [00:27:55] a mentor if I don't know anybody, right? I'm either gonna go out and shake hands- [00:28:00] No, Hugh Hornsby: I, I... And, and we get a lot more when we give. You know, uh, [00:28:05] uh, eventually it'll come back to you. And I always say that it's a great opportunity to LinkedIn to become a [00:28:10] thought leader. But if you go in there and if you're just trying to s- to spew, trying to [00:28:15] sell what you have, you know, they're, they're probably gonna look the other way. But if you become the [00:28:20] thought leader and you, you have something to say, [00:28:25] um, people, people will start to follow you. James Hatfield: That's it. What are you learning? When do [00:28:30] you mess up? Some of the best ones are, I've got a business owner, she owns a window [00:28:35] washing company. She goes onto LinkedIn once a week and she writes out [00:28:40] the good, the bad, and the ugly, and it is wonderful. I mean, I reached out to her, [00:28:45] I said, "Do not stop doing this, ever. Like what you're doing..." And then she puts a little picture of her [00:28:50] team or a video of what they're doing, and she just shares, "Here's what I'm learning. Here's what's [00:28:55] going on." Then people will start interacting. Some people might comment. You can comment on their [00:29:00] stuff. And I know for some of us, we're like, "Ugh, I don't wanna do all that." Well, do you want a mentor or [00:29:05] not? 'Cause r- that'll come. So as you do this and you share [00:29:10] You just keep sharing, right? Keep commenting. Keep, keep putting yourself out there [00:29:15] once a week. This is not a once every day thing. Connecting is every day. And [00:29:20] eventually what's gonna happen is you're gonna start seeing when you go what the people you've [00:29:25] connected with share, and they're gonna give you tools and books and who else you need to [00:29:30] connect with. And then eventually after some time, you're gonna... Notice I never sent anybody a [00:29:35] message. No messages yet. But eventually, if you see somebody that you [00:29:40] connected with and they're really posting stuff that you're learning from, send them a thank [00:29:45] you genuinely. "Hey, Johnny Jones, [00:29:50] you've been sharing... I learned this from you and this from you and this from you. This is so great. Keep it up. I [00:29:55] really love it." Then eventually, that person you might be able [00:30:00] to ask, "Would you be willing to meet me on a Zoom [00:30:05] call or a phone call, and can I l- can I get to know you?"[00:30:10] Then you do this thing called build a friendship Right? [00:30:15] You, you meet Hugh, right? You start exchanging text messages, emails, [00:30:20] and eventually you can ask the big question, "Hey, I really respect [00:30:25] what you've done as a business owner. I respect what you've built. Would you be willing to meet with me, [00:30:30] you know, every couple months or so and I just show you what I'm going through and you, and you tell me some things that I could learn or [00:30:35] things you see, and nothing's off limits." You can... Wounds from a friend can be trusted. You can wound me. [00:30:40] You can tell me what you see in my business. And you know what? Before you know it, your board of [00:30:45] directors will be full because your board of directors know other wonderful people, and they can [00:30:50] connect you. "Oh, you should meet so and so, and you gotta meet..." And then you can repay the favor. "Oh, I met so and [00:30:55] so." And as you network, is what it's called, you will build a network [00:31:00] and you will build a board advisory, and you will save yourself so much headaches [00:31:05] by learning from people that you respect and trust. And then guess what'll happen? One day someone might knock [00:31:10] on your door and ask you to be a mentor, and you better not be a dead end. Hugh Hornsby: Yeah. Yeah, 'cause, you [00:31:15] know, it's... And I used to teach my team that, you know, I, I'm, uh, first of all, [00:31:20] they had to lean in, you know? The, the, uh, think and grow rich, you know, they had to [00:31:25] have a burning desire. But, you know, but they had to invest in themselves. [00:31:30] And then I always say, if they invested in themselves, then I'd invest in them. But the whole idea [00:31:35] was, was to become a part of something bigger than themselves, um, [00:31:40] connect the company's values to their values. But the last part was the handshake, [00:31:45] was they always had to give back. They had to start it all over again. So, [00:31:50] and, and James, you're right, because there's so many people, they just don't ask. [00:31:55] And, um, you know, they just don't ask. And there's most people out there [00:32:00] really do wanna help. So- Yeah ... that's a, that's a, that's a great piece [00:32:05] of advice. James Hatfield: And I'll tell you one last thing if you want a shortcut. If you don't wanna do all everything I [00:32:10] said, you can go pay someone to be a business coach, 'cause they'll, they can do that, too. And I, and I [00:32:15] advocate for the right business coaches. So go ahead, Hugh. Sorry to cut you off. I j- I wanted to give someone a shortcut at the [00:32:20] end 'cause I gave them the long, the long route. Hugh Hornsby: Well, and I've got business coaches as well [00:32:25] and, you know, you just gotta pick the right one. So, um, when, when you, when you [00:32:30] fi- when you know that you connect with somebody, that finding those type of business coaches, they [00:32:35] They can sure make things a lot easier for you. So, so the, [00:32:40] the business you're in now, LifeSwitch, it's, it's doing really well. Um, [00:32:45] home services is not where you got started, but, but home services is a place [00:32:50] that, that's kinda near and dear to your heart. Now how, how, how's it working [00:32:55] now and, um, is there anything that you can share, that you can share with the audience that, that [00:33:00] they need to know? James Hatfield: Yeah. Um, so yeah, we are one of the fastest growing, um, [00:33:05] companies in the country, and what we're helping with is a little thing that... You've-- Everyone's [00:33:10] heard speed to lead, right? When, when the customer calls in or y- the lead comes in, how fast can you get back [00:33:15] to them to get them the price and, and get the business? That's speed to lead, right? Um, and, [00:33:20] and that's great, but it's also a little too slow. Speed to lead is now, to me, it's like [00:33:25] that's, that's a little old, okay? 'Cause what happens is someone calls [00:33:30] and, "Hey, I'd like to get this job done." "Okay, great. I can come out and take a look [00:33:35] at it in a few days." And you schedule that time, right? Ask them a few questions. [00:33:40] You call the morning of, "Hey, Miss Jones, I'm on my way out." And Miss [00:33:45] Jones says, "Don't bother. I found somebody else." And if you've been in business long enough, you've heard that [00:33:50] before, all right? And what they're telling you is you just were too slow. It wasn't you. It wasn't [00:33:55] your price. It wasn't who you are. H- You didn't even get a chance. They're just telling [00:34:00] you in a nice way you're too slow. They had a need. Because there's a little company, [00:34:05] Hugh, you might be a member. It's called Amazon Prime. Did you know that you don't [00:34:10] have to be an... Everybody is. And I tell people, "You know you don't have to be a [00:34:15] member of Amazon Prime. They'll still deliver your package." The thing is, we [00:34:20] don't wanna wait two weeks for our package. We don't even wanna wait two minutes anymore. We are all [00:34:25] impatient. We want it now. And guess what? All of your customers [00:34:30] want it now. So when they call you, the faster you can go, [00:34:35] the better. So what we've started to teach people is the Amazon [00:34:40] Prime-ification of what's happening in blue collar, all right? The smart blue collar guys are [00:34:45] fast. They're h- In, in the NFL, you gotta be fast. In the [00:34:50] Olympics, you gotta be fast. Amazon Prime, you gotta be fast The trades [00:34:55] don't get left out. Blue Collar, you don't get left out. You don't get an exception. You don't get a pass. That's not how [00:35:00] this works. All right? You've got to adapt, and you've gotta put the right [00:35:05] tools in your hand. You know, I can, I can paint a house with a roller and a brush, [00:35:10] but this little technology came out called paint sprayers, and I could paint the house [00:35:15] so much faster, in a third of the time and double the quality, which was [00:35:20] great. So now you find these tools that can change how [00:35:25] you do business. So when you... With LiveSwitch, as an example, when someone calls, [00:35:30] now I can send them a text message, tap it, and they can show me the work [00:35:35] immediately. I see them, they see me. It's a race to the face, and the face, even though [00:35:40] mine's not that good-looking, still sells great. All right? And people buy from [00:35:45] people when they can see it, and then you can see the job, 'cause not everybody that [00:35:50] you see the job of you want. Right? There are bad jobs out there, all right? [00:35:55] And it can save you some time. So you're, you're interviewing them, they're interviewing you. If it's a small enough job, [00:36:00] you can bid it right there, Amazon Prime, win the dang thing. Or you're like, "Wow, this person has [00:36:05] money, and I, I, I can drive out." And now we have AI that can write out the [00:36:10] whole bid for you. We can write out the interaction, and we have stuff on [00:36:15] property when you get there that you can talk and do your bid on property and write it all out. But race to the [00:36:20] face is, is everything, and it's the fastest thing, and even Google now is [00:36:25] saying, "Hey, do you do..." They call them virtual estimates. "Do you give virtual estimates?" And you [00:36:30] aren't gonna get the lead if you don't provide that type of service because the modern day cust-customer loves [00:36:35] Instacart, Uber, DoorDash, and Amazon [00:36:40] Convenience, convenience sells Hugh Hornsby: And it's, and it's all about [00:36:45] time. It, it's, it's, uh, you know, ti- time is the [00:36:50] most precious thing that we have. And I, you know, I, I, I [00:36:55] really love that you've been able to develop that. Um, James, when I was [00:37:00] a kid, I was, um, I was diagnosed w- with [00:37:05] epilepsy, and I would come home every now and then, and teacher tried to put me in special needs. [00:37:10] And, uh, I'd come home and my mom would say, um, you know, "Hugh, take [00:37:15] 15 minutes for a pity party and then go upstairs with this, this yellow pad and [00:37:20] pen and, and, um, assess what's going on, and then come back down and tell me what you're [00:37:25] gonna do about it." If you had a yellow pad moment that you wanted to share with [00:37:30] everybody, what would that yellow pad moment be? James Hatfield: Life is really short, Hugh, [00:37:35] and it's a mist. The yellow pad moment is it ain't even about you. [00:37:40] Problem you got going on is you're about to write a whole yellow pad moment about yourself. Why don't you write that [00:37:45] yellow pad moment about one of your closest friends or a family member or a colleague or someone [00:37:50] who's made an impact in your life, and make it about them. Go [00:37:55] give some- to something that can't give back to you. Go do something where you don't have to get your [00:38:00] name on the building. Go do something in the shadows, like, uh, that no one even knows, [00:38:05] an act and a kindness and a service. Because you will [00:38:10] receive more than you give, 'cause that's the magic behind all this. And that's not why we do it, [00:38:15] not because we can get more than we give, even though that is the magic secret, but [00:38:20] that the yellow pad moment for me is this life ain't about me. And once I started figuring that [00:38:25] out, everything started changing. If I made it about my team or I made [00:38:30] it about the customer or I made it about my neighbor or I made it about somebody else, [00:38:35] I got to join on someone else's journey. And so my yellow pad moment is, it ain't about you. [00:38:40] It's about them. It's the customer. It's the person. It's the fill in the [00:38:45] blank. And that, that'll change your life. Hugh Hornsby: That is well said. [00:38:50] I couldn't have said it any better myself. So the, the last question that I [00:38:55] have typically is when, you know, when people are listening [00:39:00] to this and they go, they, they, uh, they turn it off, a lot of times they'll say, [00:39:05] "Boy, I wish Hugh would've asked James this question." What, what [00:39:10] question would that be that I haven't asked you? James Hatfield: What can Hugh Hornsby: someone do to help Hugh? '[00:39:15] James Hatfield: Cause you're not gonna ask that. You're not gonna ask that. You're not gonna [00:39:20] be someone who asks for so- for something. You're a giver. You're up here training and teaching and coaching. [00:39:25] So what I want is to tell people from that question is what can we [00:39:30] do for Hugh, is that you can share this, like on the LinkedIn thing we were talking about. [00:39:35] And don't even share my episode. See, it's not about me. Go share the previous person. Show them a previous [00:39:40] and pay it forward, right? Because Hugh isn't doing this to, you know, make [00:39:45] millions and millions of dollars. He's doing this 'cause he, he has a heart for other people and he wants to train and, and coach.[00:39:50] So don't be a dead end. Like you listen to a great episode, uh, [00:39:55] either w- this one or a previous one, share that with somebody. Don't be a dead end person. So, [00:40:00] you know, you d- you weren't gonna ask me what, you know, someone could do for you. But that would help [00:40:05] Hugh, and it not only would help Hugh, it would help the person that you shared it with that would actually listen to it. So [00:40:10] that's what I would love to, to, to say. Hugh Hornsby: Well, that is really kind. And you, you [00:40:15] actually have a, what I call a blue collar smart hat, I mean, [00:40:20] heart. And, uh, I just wanna say that it's been a pleasure [00:40:25] to get to know you, and that, uh, what you're, what you've done with all your [00:40:30] businesses, and, uh, you and I had a deeper conversation of what you're doing [00:40:35] on helping other people. Uh, that's what our world is really about. And James, I [00:40:40] just wanted to say, uh, it's my honor to have you on this podcast, and it's my [00:40:45] honor to call you as a friend. James Hatfield: Back at you. I feel the same way. You know, fast [00:40:50] friendships, man. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on the show today. Hugh Hornsby: James, I m- I did miss one.[00:40:55] If they wanna get ahold of you Can you share with them the best [00:41:00] way to get ahold of, of, uh, you and, and also to get, [00:41:05] get ahold of your company? James Hatfield: Yep. Um, and I'll tell you one story too, 'cause it's kinda cool. [00:41:10] Um, you can get ahold of me on LinkedIn like we've been talking about. Look up James Hatfield, LiveSwitch, [00:41:15] L-I-V-E-S-W-I-T-C-H, and I'll make time for anyone that reaches out. If you don't believe me, just try it. [00:41:20] If you wanna get in touch with our company, liveswitch.com. I got beautiful, wonderful, [00:41:25] um, team members that'll take care of you, or you can just ask for me if you, if you'd like that way. So you can come in [00:41:30] two different directions. And I, I've been on 150 podcasts as a guest this [00:41:35] last year, Hugh, I think I shared that with you. Um, and I, and I share that every now and then, like, if you want to, really reach [00:41:40] out. Well, I had a guy reach out. I was on a door-to-door podcast, you know, guys that go knock on doors [00:41:45] trying to sell trades. And, um, well, I said the same thing, and a guy [00:41:50] reaches out. This is like, this was like a year ago. A guy reaches out, and I give him time, and we get [00:41:55] on a video call, and he's kinda sitting out on the front porch, and he's telling me his story, and he's [00:42:00] not in a great place, and he's just like, "I j-..." He's like, "I really, I, I..." He's like, "I got a [00:42:05] girl I like, and I wanna marry her, but I don't have a job, and I don't have the means, and I don't have enough [00:42:10] to pr- be a good provider. And I don't know how to get in and, and do this, and I'd like to be in sales, and [00:42:15] I've never been in sales, and I think if I was in sales, I'd make some money." I said, "Here's what you can do. [00:42:20] Go to a company like a solar company," now this is an older guy, "and, and say you're willing [00:42:25] to knock on doors. They will give you a shot. I guarantee you they will give you a shot. [00:42:30] All right? You might not like it, but I'm gonna say endure it for six months and give your [00:42:35] whole heart to it. Your whole heart. And you don't have to do this. Give your whole heart. And then from there, see what [00:42:40] happens, and report back." Um, six months later, [00:42:45] he sends me a photo of a very pretty girl with a big ring on her finger, and he [00:42:50] says, "Hey, James. I did what you said. I went and I got a job knocking on doors, [00:42:55] and that led me to my newest job, which is in New York City doing financial services, and I'm making [00:43:00] more money than I ever have ever in my life, and I was able to buy that ring. So thank you for [00:43:05] challenging me to be humble and just put myself in a role that I, I, I [00:43:10] wasn't sure I was even gonna do it, but I did what you said." So really cool story, you know. And [00:43:15] that might not be yours, but if you wanna reach out and talk, you know, I love, you know, giving my two cents, and [00:43:20] if I can make your life a little better, then so be it. Hugh Hornsby: Well, yeah, you know, [00:43:25] what, what a g- what a great person and, and somebody that really gives back. And, [00:43:30] uh, thank you for being a friend, and thank you for being on Blue Collar Smart. [00:43:35] James Hatfield: Thanks for having me. ​ [00:43:40] [00:43:45] [00:43:50] [00:43:55] [00:44:00] [00:44:05]