Gary Michel on Why Purpose Beats Raw Talent

Hugh Hornsby: [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] [00:00:25] [00:00:30] Hello, this is Hugh Hornsby announcing a new [00:00:35] podcast, Blue Collar Smart, built different, underdog proven, [00:00:40] and trades tested. Last week when I was at the grocery store, a friend of [00:00:45] mine said, "Hey, Hugh, what are you up to?" And I told him, "I'm building a podcast." [00:00:50] And I told him the name of it, Blue Collar Smart. And he said, [00:00:55] "Why did you name it that?" And I told him that when I was 10 years [00:01:00] old, I hit my head, diagnosed with epilepsy, a learning [00:01:05] disability. I had to figure out how to look at the world from different perspective. And [00:01:10] that when I think about Blue Collar Smart, I don't talk about people the way they dress, I [00:01:15] talk about people the way they think. And I'm excited today to [00:01:20] have a good friend of mine, Gary S. Michel, who has [00:01:25] written two books. He has led many [00:01:30] companies everything from fr- GenWeld, Honeywell, Club [00:01:35] Car, Trane, and Ingersoll Rand. Gary hello and the audience a little [00:01:40] bit about yourself. Gary Michel: Hello, and thanks so much for having me [00:01:45] today. It's exciting to be really at the front end journey here on the podcast. So I really appreciate the honor [00:01:50] of being here. I've enjoyed running and working in businesses that have been [00:01:55] in some sort of transformation has really been my experience. [00:02:00] Transformation either in operations in market conditions, sometimes in [00:02:05] leadership and, it's really where I found some excitement found some [00:02:10] some enjoyment there. But it's spanned across a number of different industries some of which are [00:02:15] directly in your wheelhouse that we share, and some that have been a little bit [00:02:20] outside. So building products HVAC industrial and [00:02:25] commercial, as well as consumer businesses and services. So hopefully we'll have a great [00:02:30] conversation around a lot of that Hugh Hornsby: So you're an engineer from Virginia [00:02:35] Tech, Gary Michel: Yes, I am. Go Hokies Hugh Hornsby: got started. Yeah, go Hokies. And I [00:02:40] noticed in your book and his book is The Founder's Mindset, which [00:02:45] really fits everybody on this show. But I noticed that the person that did the [00:02:50] forward was with Buzz Foster. Buzz Foster, for those of you that don't know, is a [00:02:55] iconic blue-collar coach. What I always loved about him is [00:03:00] he figured out how to do more with less. And so my question to you is [00:03:05] in your business career, have you watched what Bud Foster did and to [00:03:10] lead those teams when they were pretty much taking B and C players [00:03:15] and turning them into A and B players? Gary Michel: Oh, absolutely. The philosophy of, [00:03:20] Frank Beamer and Bud Foster was really to do that, right? To be great coaches, [00:03:25] great teachers, and and build teams around really talented but [00:03:30] maybe overlooked or I won't say less respected, but less valued players [00:03:35] maybe and build incredible teams. In fact, at one point playing for a national [00:03:40] championship. Bud brought that to the field and to the, the, the training field and the [00:03:45] locker room through his iconic lunch pail. I don't think anything [00:03:50] demonstrates clarity of purpose and alignment quite like his lunch [00:03:55] pail. For those that don't know, he called his defensive program the Lunch Pail [00:04:00] Defense which is a working man's blue collar type of work ethic. You show up [00:04:05] every day just like your lunchbox does when you do, and and you work hard [00:04:10] and you say what you're going to do, you do it, you mean it, and you support each other. When I [00:04:15] was looking to, for a forward for my for that second book, I I couldn't [00:04:20] imagine a better iconic symbol than that lunch pail and what it represents, and it really [00:04:25] sums up the message of the book succinctly Hugh Hornsby: Yeah, there was a couple of quotes [00:04:30] he had, but the one, one of them that I liked the most, Gary, was, "Talent [00:04:35] wins games, purpose wins seasons." And I just think [00:04:40] that by just reading your book obviously you started to you, [00:04:45] you went i- you went into engineering, you went into operations, but eventually from [00:04:50] what I understand you were great at figuring out how to fix problems. How did [00:04:55] and obviously at some point you transitioned from the operations side to the [00:05:00] people side. What what kinda, what put you in a position to figure that out? Gary Michel: [00:05:05] Listen, I, I didn't come out of school or start working thinking, "Wow, I'm gonna be the CEO [00:05:10] one day." Maybe there are folks that do that. I really was I started as an [00:05:15] application engineer on the commercial side of the business, and I enjoyed solving [00:05:20] problems for c- for our customers primarily. But the business problems that we had [00:05:25] in serving our customers, getting our products selected, those technical problems were [00:05:30] very exciting to me. But what I found over time was as I got into new roles and different [00:05:35] positions the technical problems were actually somewhat easy to solve. It's [00:05:40] it's a little bit of hard work and maybe some mathematics, but really the problems [00:05:45] that were maybe a little harder to solve, but they needed to be solved on a broader basis, were the ones around the [00:05:50] people in the organization. And as I kinda grew up in, in [00:05:55] organizational challenges, it just became different problems. I would say what I learned was, [00:06:00] engineering taught me how to solve problems and, leadership roles that I went [00:06:05] into really taught me what problems or helped me select what problems needed to be [00:06:10] solved Hugh Hornsby: So clarity and I think [00:06:15] purpose and clarity, that's really what your book is about. And when you started to [00:06:20] figure that out, because it doesn't happen overnight, right? Was there somebody, did you have somebody that kinda [00:06:25] helped you through that? Or did you just i- [00:06:30] was there a book? Was there something that, that kind of [00:06:35] motivated you to fig- to figure it out? Gary Michel: I think it started if you look at my first book, which is called [00:06:40] Decomplify I talk about the creation of the word complify which is a [00:06:45] made-up word, but it's yeah, there you go. It's, complify means to make things more [00:06:50] complicated than they need to be. And, v- pretty early in my leadership journey [00:06:55] I, I was having a conversation with with one of my colleagues. I'd taken over a service [00:07:00] branch that we did, primarily industrial compressor and pump [00:07:05] service and and sales. And I kept getting these requests [00:07:10] from headquarters. "Do this, do that. What about that? We need a report on this." And [00:07:15] it was really frustrating because as a first-time leader, I was really enamored with the [00:07:20] idea of I wanna solve problems for my customers. I wanna take care of them. I wanna, [00:07:25] support my people in doing their work, and this other stuff was just getting in the way. And I was sharing [00:07:30] that with a colleague of mine, and he said, "Yeah I wish they would just stop complifying things." [00:07:35] And that's where the word started. The interesting thing about, making things more [00:07:40] complicated or this this, this move from clarity of purpose is it's never [00:07:45] one event to you. It's happens over time. It's that one more [00:07:50] report that you ask for to figure something out or that one [00:07:55] more meeting to, to get everybody aligned or, that, that other activity that [00:08:00] you do that you think is going to add value to a process. And over time, this [00:08:05] just builds up, and it gets you further and further away from the work that you're [00:08:10] trying to accomplish, further from the customer, further from the people doing the work, and [00:08:15] further from that purpose that was so clear when you started Hugh Hornsby: So a [00:08:20] clear- and clarity clarity is something, when I was reading your book it's something [00:08:25] that you talk about, and I'm probably not gonna say it the right way, but it's almost I [00:08:30] remember one part of the book where you had two groups. One was trying to figure out one thing, and they [00:08:35] got all complicated with it, and the other one tried to, back in and figured [00:08:40] out what was important to the customer and really simplified it. Can you [00:08:45] share a little bit about that? Gary Michel: Yeah, I think when you talk about clarity, it's really about focusing-- [00:08:50] understanding and focusing on the critical few things that really matter and then [00:08:55] avoiding all the others. In the particular example you're talking about two groups [00:09:00] went after the same problem. One started solving the problem just, one thing at a [00:09:05] time and started putting in a bunch of different things all at the same time trying to solve [00:09:10] problems as they came up without really understanding what the mission was or where in [00:09:15] that particular case, what the customer challenge was with the particular product.[00:09:20] The other group, went slow to go fast. They talked to the customer, they [00:09:25] evaluated the issue, and they really focused on the one thing they thought was the [00:09:30] biggest problem. For those of us that are into into lean manufacturing environments [00:09:35] or whatever, the tallest... Some of you always talk about the tallest candle or the tallest thing on the Pareto. They [00:09:40] went to s- to, to handle that. And usually, if you focus on that and you [00:09:45] put all your resources or a disproportionate number of your resources and efforts onto solving [00:09:50] kind of the biggest problem, the others tend to take care of themselves or become [00:09:55] so insignificant they don't matter, and you save a lot of time. But the key there in that, [00:10:00] that particular case was the the group that took a little more time to [00:10:05] understand the problem and understand how they might solve it before just going and [00:10:10] solving a bunch of problems, actually got the better result and did it probably [00:10:15] quicker than than the other team, which really never got there Hugh Hornsby: So [00:10:20] when you started to understand this wa- was there a time, like it was an oh, wow [00:10:25] moment for Gary, Michelle that said, I figured this thing [00:10:30] out"? Gary Michel: Again, like I said, I think the concept [00:10:35] of making things more difficult than they needed to be was really early in my leadership [00:10:40] journey, right? Taking over some rel-- and by today-- by my standards [00:10:45] today, smaller organizations, but they were nonetheless leadership jobs. [00:10:50] And what I learned was, if we stayed focused on what really mattered that we would do really [00:10:55] well at that. And this idea of taking on more things than you [00:11:00] can possibly achieve is not success. That's what looks like activity. And [00:11:05] activity is not necessary. Some people look at that as success. They talk about how busy they are. [00:11:10] They talk about how many things they have going on. And in reality, that doesn't move an [00:11:15] organization forward. What really does is focusing on the one or two things [00:11:20] that are really gonna move the needle, but you have to understand what problem you're solving or what opportunity [00:11:25] you're going after. Any time, where I always figure it out is I [00:11:30] do believe that people doing the work know the-- they know how to do the [00:11:35] work. They know how to solve the problems around the work. They even know what the problems are. You just have to give them the kind of the, [00:11:40] the leeway to go do that, the authority, responsibility to go fix the problems on their own, [00:11:45] and give them the tools. But if you ask them what they're working on, if you ask a [00:11:50] team what they're working on, everybody says the same thing, you're pretty sure that they understand what the [00:11:55] purpose of their work is. If they don't, then you've got a problem. And what I found was [00:12:00] when I asked that simple question, "What are we working on today?" That helped me understand if a [00:12:05] team had a direction, a clarity of their purpose, and were able to [00:12:10] achieve or not. And that was probably the best litmus test I've ever had for [00:12:15] determining if a team was being successful or not Hugh Hornsby: So is there another question that you [00:12:20] would go with that? It's, was there ever one that would come up that would say, "Okay, how can we do it [00:12:25] better?" Gary Michel: That's always the-- that's where you always wanna go, right? Where are the problems? What can we do [00:12:30] better? There is a, a story that that I often tell. I received a [00:12:35] request for a capital a capital authorization for a bunch of really expensive [00:12:40] equipment to solve a throughput problem in a factory that was, that appeared to [00:12:45] be over capacity in this one area. And it was a very expensive capital [00:12:50] request. And before, before I approved it before my team approved it, we decided to [00:12:55] go to the factory and take a look at this process. Let's understand it. And we walked around the [00:13:00] process, we talked to the people doing the work, and we said, "Hey, what's the issue here? How can we get better [00:13:05] throughput?" And by asking the people doing the work, they told us, "Hey, there's some things we [00:13:10] can do. We can get some throughput here." The reality was that only half of the equipment in that, [00:13:15] s- that area of the factory was operating at the time. And I was like what [00:13:20] about the other half? Can we get that running?" And they talked about, how the cycles of maintenance and all [00:13:25] these other things were going on. But they said, "Yeah, we could probably run, half, half of the ones [00:13:30] that are down, more and that would probably give us more throughput," and they had some ideas. Anyway, we [00:13:35] went away and let them work on that for a while. What's amazing is they got to a point where [00:13:40] they could operate almost all of the equipment all the time [00:13:45] and and still keep maintenance and still keep, the, the machines running. In fact, they were able to [00:13:50] even get some throughput through the the existing equipment faster. So we didn't need the [00:13:55] capital req- request that they were asking for. I asked them, I said so what changed? You [00:14:00] guys have been working in this area for a really long time. Why, why all of [00:14:05] a sudden can you get all these machines running, and can you get more throughput?" And they [00:14:10] said, nobody ever asked us And what a powerful [00:14:15] lesson, right? It's two things there. One, you don't-- you kinda wanna yell at them for it shouldn't need to be asked. [00:14:20] But they didn't feel safe in that environment, to to offer up [00:14:25] solutions to problems they knew how to fix. And once somebody asked them [00:14:30] they went at it, and they felt ownership, and they understood the mission and the purpose of the, of [00:14:35] what their work, how it tied to the overall success of the organization. It was-- it's a great [00:14:40] story, and it's it's amazing that's all it took. It's a little harder than the story, a little harder than telling [00:14:45] the story. But the, the reality is if you give people the, the-- a safe [00:14:50] environment to offer up suggestions, you give them ownership of the process, but you [00:14:55] tie it to the purpose of the organization and they can see how their work ties to the overall [00:15:00] success, they're going to be looking out for those solutions that that [00:15:05] exist but that nobody ever asked them for Hugh Hornsby: Yeah and it's I, I hear all the [00:15:10] time, Gary, from founders and owners that "Hey [00:15:15] nobody cares as much as me." And y- I don't know if you hear that from time to [00:15:20] time, and I always say, "If nobody cares as much as you, the problem is you." [00:15:25] So Gary Michel: Yeah, I think we take for granted that people understand how their [00:15:30] work how their work translates to the success of the organization. I talk about, the [00:15:35] definition of a great company, and to me, it's a company that people wanna buy from, [00:15:40] people wanna work for, people wanna invest in. People wanna buy from a great company [00:15:45] because, they're-- they like the products and services, they're aligned with the values of the company. [00:15:50] They feel like they get a better deal or better service or better treatment from this [00:15:55] particular entity. But people wanna work for a great company for many of the [00:16:00] same reasons, but they're aligned with the work, they're aligned with the mission of the company and the values. [00:16:05] They feel like they can make a contribution, but they also feel like their contribution is [00:16:10] valued, and that by working there, being part of that organization, they can meet [00:16:15] the aspirations they have for themselves and for their careers. And to me, that's [00:16:20] something we overlook a lot as leaders in particular, is do we [00:16:25] make sure that equation for our associates, for our employees is working? [00:16:30] Do they feel aligned? Do they feel that they can make a contribution and that their contribution is [00:16:35] valued? And I think if they do, then the third part, investors wanting to invest in a great [00:16:40] company they do because they get a superior financial return for their investment. [00:16:45] So to me, that piece around employees is something you talk about a lot, [00:16:50] Hugh. I think it's a place we often overlook all the elements of that equation that [00:16:55] they're looking for in a great company Hugh Hornsby: And I love that because as in our industry [00:17:00] there, there's a huge aging out that's happening around us. [00:17:05] PE is, has found the HVAC and plumbing industry and electrical [00:17:10] industry over the last three or four years, I think they bought 800 companies just [00:17:15] in the trade side of it last year. Probably m- probably more than that, Gary. But but when you [00:17:20] really take a look, and you're a problem solver, if you take a look at the problems that they [00:17:25] have, and, and they're trying to wrap all these people, companies in and put the [00:17:30] systems together to go with it. But and believe me, I believe in PE. I [00:17:35] see founder-led companies that, that get to a point that they just can't, [00:17:40] they can't build any further. But one of the, one of the biggest problems they have, or [00:17:45] maybe I should ask you, is one of the biggest problems they have people[00:17:50] Gary Michel: I think the entire industry, regardless if it's PE or still [00:17:55] founder-owned and operated I, I think, the people side of it is what makes the [00:18:00] difference. The, the people rep- you know, in almost every case, even commercial or [00:18:05] residential-type solution service providers, the people represent the company brand and the [00:18:10] service directly to the customer. So you wanna make sure that you've got [00:18:15] longevity, aligned people that feel safe in providing the [00:18:20] type of service and type of value that you hope you're providing to those [00:18:25] customers. I don't know that's a unique problem to a, to a sponsor-owned or a [00:18:30] founder-owned business. I think it transcends that. Do I think... there are great [00:18:35] examples of founder-owned business, businesses in our space, in this space [00:18:40] that that operate well, right? They've taken advantage of technology, they've [00:18:45] taken advantage of back office efficiency, and they've, [00:18:50] doubled down on, on the customer-facing side, right? They've provided their their [00:18:55] service people, their technicians their salespeople with all the tools that they need [00:19:00] to be successful and be efficient and given them the ability to do that. Likewise, [00:19:05] on the private equity side, same thing. You do get some economies of [00:19:10] scale. You do get the benefit of, some fresh money in there for investment. [00:19:15] I, I never say one is better than the other. There are also examples of poor [00:19:20] executions on both sides too, and I think you, you get back to it doesn't really [00:19:25] matter which... who is the owner it matters, what is your philosophy and what is the [00:19:30] strategy you're going after. Are you clear about what you're trying to achieve? And if it's, [00:19:35] if it is that differentiated and superior customer experience, then that's what you should be [00:19:40] focused on regardless of who owns it Hugh Hornsby: That's, you know what? That is that, that's a great [00:19:45] comment because it really doesn't matter, does it? Gary Michel: No, not at all. Owner part of Hugh Hornsby: [00:19:50] you're just running for the numbers, then you're gonna be running for the numbers. And if you're running to for [00:19:55] something that's bigger than yourself and taking care of the customer, then it [00:20:00] doesn't matter. It d- doesn't really matter who owns it. Gary Michel: Yeah. As a generality, when you're a [00:20:05] long-term founder you're looking for a legacy. What i- what is it that I c- I can leave [00:20:10] behind that's gonna be better than what, better than, than I made it? The timeframe [00:20:15] for that founder is a lot longer usually than than, a private, a private [00:20:20] sponsor or a sponsor. A sponsor is looking to make some value add some value [00:20:25] in, in a different way mo- more than likely, but add some value and then move it to the next [00:20:30] owner for for their, for the value they can create. So the time window may be [00:20:35] shorter or different in the two, two avenues. But at the end of the day, [00:20:40] if you're going to have a great company in either category, you still have to meet the same [00:20:45] requirements. Is it a place people wanna buy, and is it a place people wanna work? Hugh Hornsby: I [00:20:50] love it. And I was gonna say, at JELD-WEN, I, I'd read that you were the most [00:20:55] admired CEO in, in the Charlotte Business Journal. Congratulations on [00:21:00] that. Obviously, you had built the culture over there for that to happen. [00:21:05] Is there any suggestions to the owners that are out there on what they [00:21:10] need to really do to help build that type of culture? Gary Michel: One of the things that I'm most [00:21:15] proud of in... I worked a long time at Ingersoll Rand, but in a number of different building-- [00:21:20] businesses, excuse me. Then worked at Honeywell and then at JELD-WEN. One of the things that I'm probably [00:21:25] most proud of is the fact that I was able to work with a number of [00:21:30] people that I had worked with in many of those businesses. They-- We followed each other, [00:21:35] we came with each other, and we worked together well. Doesn't mean we didn't have other people around us as [00:21:40] well, but we had an environment where people were attracted to it. We were [00:21:45] what I like to call, we were a destination for talent. And the reason was that we tried [00:21:50] to put the best people together who, thought similarly, [00:21:55] certain set of values. Felt that they that they had contributions to make to the [00:22:00] business and worked hard at that. And respected each other, respected the [00:22:05] business and respected people. And I think when you create that type of environment, what [00:22:10] is, a, a following. People come to work together and, they do that, [00:22:15] again, for the same reasons we talked about before. They feel that, it's beneficial to them, [00:22:20] both professionally and personally Hugh Hornsby: And surrounding yourself with the right [00:22:25] people that just, But a- and, but that just doesn't happen, and o- [00:22:30] obviously when you start surrounding yourself with those type of people, I always said that I know when [00:22:35] I went through the Everflow it was like people always said, "I can't hire anybody." And I was [00:22:40] like, "I've got lines of people that would love to come to work here." If you're doing the right thing [00:22:45] by them and then the, the culture that you create is just pretty [00:22:50] amazing. Con- congratulations on that. Is there a piece of advice that you have for [00:22:55] somebody that is either, s- starting in a new business [00:23:00] or building a business or trying to build that culture that you're talking about? Where do you [00:23:05] get started with that? Gary Michel: It's gonna sound simple, but I [00:23:10] think the advice that I would give is learn to ask questions. We spend our [00:23:15] entire life learning how to answer questions. From the minute we're born [00:23:20] all the way through school and early in our careers, we're rewarded for [00:23:25] or applauded for how well we answer a question. What's my name? How [00:23:30] old am I? What are the questions we get asked in school? What are the things we get asked early in [00:23:35] our career even are always about how well we answer the question. The best [00:23:40] answer get the best reward. The best answerers get get promoted. [00:23:45] And then all of a sudden we're at this point where we're starting a business or we're starting a [00:23:50] new a new venture, new product, it can be a new team and, [00:23:55] we apply the same thing we've always always known. How-- we think [00:24:00] we're supposed to answer the questions the best. And the reality is, as leaders, [00:24:05] that's not your job. Sure, it's great if you know the answer but more [00:24:10] than likely you're not gonna know the answer, and you may not be the person that's in the best position to know [00:24:15] the answer. So what we really need to learn is how to ask good [00:24:20] questions. What problem are we trying to solve? Who are we solving it for? Have [00:24:25] you thought about this? Asking those questions and being open [00:24:30] to actually listening to the answers will help inform a better solution usually to [00:24:35] problems. It'll make people feel more comfortable and safe to tell you [00:24:40] what is really going on or what they think. And ultimately that will lead to [00:24:45] I I believe will lead to success. So to me, the advice is ask more and better [00:24:50] questions Hugh Hornsby: That, that is incredible advice, 'cause I believe in that [00:24:55] 100 per- every morning I get up and I started ask, asking myself, "Okay, Hugh, who do [00:25:00] you wanna be today?" "What are you gonna do differently?" And I... There's a thing called the [00:25:05] reticular activating system, and there's so much information that's, that [00:25:10] we're being hit with, and I've always been coached that, hey, if I just start asking [00:25:15] myself better questions. But it, the, what you just said is that's the s- [00:25:20] that works the same way in business. Gary Michel: Absolutely Hugh Hornsby: that, that's [00:25:25] amazing. A- as we kinda wrap this up Gary, first of all I wanna say thank you for the [00:25:30] friendship. I'm on, I'm on a board with you, and e- every time Gary talks [00:25:35] people, I always make sure that I'm listening. He's an Gary Michel: And Hugh Hornsby: Yeah th- [00:25:40] thank Gary Michel: to you Hugh Hornsby: And what's great about it is that we kinda rub off on each other, [00:25:45] and what what's we make each other better. But when I was a kid, [00:25:50] Gary, I was, I was diagnosed with epilepsy and some learning disability, and I'd come [00:25:55] home and I always remember my, my teacher telling me that I needed to go to special needs. I'd [00:26:00] come home and my mother would s- give me 15 minutes for a pity party, and then she'd give [00:26:05] me a yellow pad and say, "Go upstairs and write down what it is you're gonna do [00:26:10] differently about it, and then come back and tell me how you're gonna take an action." So [00:26:15] if there's a yellow pad moment that Gary has, is there a, [00:26:20] a, another yellow pad h- moment, other than asking questions, that you can share [00:26:25] with the group? Gary Michel: A yellow pad moment. That's a difficult [00:26:30] question. I, I would say that boy, there, there's several. But, the things that, you can-- [00:26:35] At the end of, at the end of a career, at the end of of a road, you look back and you [00:26:40] say, "Did I make this place better?" "Was, was the place I was or the business I was better [00:26:45] for, for me having been there or being a part of it?" And that's really all I ever tried to [00:26:50] achieve. And, it comes back to so what would be better, as I go [00:26:55] into something new? And to me it always comes back to one thing, and that's being in the [00:27:00] moment being fully into what you're doing. So for example, I always [00:27:05] suggest this to people, particularly when they struggle or they think they're struggling with w-work-life [00:27:10] balance. I hear that a lot, right? How do I balance that?" And to me it's, there's [00:27:15] always-- there-there's no such thing as true balance. Something's always gonna win out one over the [00:27:20] other at a particular time. But over time, are you in the moment for the [00:27:25] things that you're involved in? When you're at work or when you're working on a problem for work, are you [00:27:30] fully in it? When you're with your kids or your wife or your family, are you fully in [00:27:35] it? And I-I-I say that's true of, if you play golf or [00:27:40] tennis or pickleball or whatever it is you decide to do, are you fully in that? Are you [00:27:45] giving your team, are you giving your family, are you giving your colleagues [00:27:50] your full attention, your full effort while you're there? And I [00:27:55] think that, my yellow pad moment would be, making sure that I'm [00:28:00] fully engaged in what it is I'm supposed to be engaged or what I've committed to right now, [00:28:05] and I worry about the other things later. And I think that's a kind of a [00:28:10] concept that I've tried to put in the second book where, clarity is really [00:28:15] about that. Focus on the thing that matters the most and [00:28:20] push all the other things away. And they'll be there, they'll be there when you get [00:28:25] there. And just make sure that you pick the things that cr-are critically most important to [00:28:30] focus on Hugh Hornsby: That, that is a great yellow pad moment because I think [00:28:35] in our world with all the dings and everything else that we have from the [00:28:40] phone our- we're being distracted and taken away from that. But being in the moment [00:28:45] is that, that is a great one. Gary, if there was, a lot of times [00:28:50] when we've wrapped this up and the audience is out there and they said, "Hey, I [00:28:55] wish Hugh would've asked this one question to Gary," what would that question [00:29:00] be? Gary Michel: I don't know. Really not sure. You've asked some pretty good ones that I was [00:29:05] not not expecting. I, I think the maybe the one is, clearly we don't-- I don't know how you put [00:29:10] in a question, but, clearly who helped you, right? How'd you get to where you are? Maybe that's a [00:29:15] good question that I get asked quite a bit, and the answer is a lot of people. And I'm not [00:29:20] trying to be trite about it. I was lucky, very lucky in my career that I [00:29:25] had either direct leaders or people that took an interest in me [00:29:30] along the way. And, it wasn't necessarily just one person, it was [00:29:35] several people at the right time with the right the right ability. And I think you make [00:29:40] that available to yourself. I believe that your career is a combination of [00:29:45] three things. It's a combination of the skills and the knowledge that you [00:29:50] have. It's a-- it's clearly, there's some opportunity timing and opportunity. [00:29:55] But I also think that it's this idea of support or mentorship that, [00:30:00] that happens, and a lot of that is, in your hands to go after. Who [00:30:05] do you associate yourself with? Who do you... for me I know the things that you can help [00:30:10] me with, and I w- I call you about those. And you help me with them, and we help each [00:30:15] other. I, I find that in your career there will be leaders that you work [00:30:20] for, colleagues that maybe are working with or within the same business. Or it [00:30:25] may be, coaches or people from other companies or other walks of [00:30:30] life. If you have an opportunity to go to a trade show or go to some sort of training [00:30:35] that's outside your company, get to know the co- people in the cohort. There are people there that [00:30:40] will genuinely help you just if you ask them and say, "Hey, I'm working on [00:30:45] this. Is this something that I'd like to talk to you about? And can you-- would you mind doing that?" People [00:30:50] tend to want to help other people. And I think that that's that's how you get, [00:30:55] that's how you're successful in life. We build that team, our own team of advisors, if you [00:31:00] will. And I was fortunate to have many, and many I call dear friends to [00:31:05] this day Hugh Hornsby: Yeah, that's, mentorship is incredible. But w- it [00:31:10] really goes back to what you said earlier, is you've gotta ask. [00:31:15] It's you need to ask. Listen Gary, first of all I wanna say thank you for the friendship. [00:31:20] Thanks for everything you've done for this industry. And I think it's, I think [00:31:25] it's amazing how you've been able to turn your business, [00:31:30] create the clarity and the simplification, and also take a look [00:31:35] at how things really work. And the one thing I know about you [00:31:40] is that you make everybody around you better, and I just wanna say thank you for being on [00:31:45] the Blue Collar Smart Podcast, and thank you for doing that Gary Michel: Thank you. That's [00:31:50] very kind of you. Hopefully I'll be able to get my head through the door here, but the, I think you're [00:31:55] overstating a little bit, but yeah I appreciate all you do, and I do really believe that other than we might [00:32:00] make life a little difficult for the founder that we happen to advise I do think we do [00:32:05] feed off of each other, and I think that's a benefit for him. But it's always a learning [00:32:10] experience for me. I certainly enjoy being in those conversations, so thank you very much for that Hugh Hornsby: And [00:32:15] thank you and just keep it up because we need more of the Gary Michells of [00:32:20] this world Gary Michel: Thank you so much, Hugh. I appreciate that ​[00:32:25] [00:32:30] [00:32:35] [00:32:40] [00:32:45] [00:32:50]