The Loss That Taught Sam McGough to Build Transferable Businesses

Hugh Hornsby:[00:00:30] Hello there. This is Hugh Hornsby with a brand new podcast called [00:00:35] Blue Collar Smart: Underdog Proven, Trades Tested, [00:00:40] and the Voice of the Industry. A podcast [00:00:45] called Blue Collar Smart, not because of how you dress, but [00:00:50] because of how you think. And today, I've got a really good friend of mine, [00:00:55] Dr. Sam McGough. And what is a doctor [00:01:00] doing over here talking about HVAC? Well, we're gonna find out. Sam, how are [00:01:05] you? Sam McGough: Doing great, Hugh. Thanks for having me on Hugh Hornsby: So Sam you [00:01:10] own a discovery medical clinic. Can you share a little bit about that [00:01:15] and what you do? Sam McGough: Yeah. Um, so I [00:01:20] run a medical clinic that has multiple providers and, uh, multiple treatment [00:01:25] options and different types of, um, well, I call, we call them service centers. But, um, think of it, [00:01:30] if you think of it similar to like a blue collar, so we have, you know, different, you know, [00:01:35] types of doctors that treat different things. What I did, I started out as a chiropractor and [00:01:40] then built a medical industry or medical enterprise with, like I said, a medical doctor, nurse [00:01:45] practitioners, PTs, other chiropractors, and focused on [00:01:50] building the business, the part where I didn't have to work anymore really, you [00:01:55] know, or I didn't have to be in the, in the grind of things. So stopped treating patients [00:02:00] about a decade ago and then just ran the business, and then [00:02:05] eventually just completely kind of pulled out where I'm mainly just, you know, [00:02:10] I have some managers in place so I can do other things. And so that's where it led me [00:02:15] into, uh, you know, looking for other business. And before that, I also bought and sold [00:02:20] several medical businesses and chiropractic offices. And so, and then we, we [00:02:25] also ran a management company where we helped other clinics become more [00:02:30] successful same principles that we put into play. And so that's kind of where it led me to [00:02:35] where I'm at today. Hugh Hornsby: So Sam, let's drop back a little bit because I don't [00:02:40] think people just walk in and create that type of enterprise without [00:02:45] having some type of history that brought you to that place to start to figure [00:02:50] that out. How did you do that? Sam McGough: I took courses, I read [00:02:55] books. One of the things we did as kind of like a, a hack, I guess, [00:03:00] is I started a mastermind, and so I found all these other really successful people and got them in a [00:03:05] room and started stealing or borrowing some of their information and ideas, you [00:03:10] know, too. Learning from that, like if you go back to like Napoleon Hill's concept of mastermind is putting a [00:03:15] bunch of people in a room, and you found if you get enough people in a room, they pretty much have [00:03:20] either been through the problem or solved it already. And so I did that for a [00:03:25] couple years, and that was really where we saw, I saw a lot of growth, [00:03:30] you know. And then 'cause one, you also gathered some people around that you could call and say [00:03:35] like, "Hey, man, I'm going through this thing," or, "I have something going on. Have you ever been there?" And he's like, "No, I haven't, but I know a guy." [00:03:40] Or maybe he has. And so that made a big im- you know, impact and we grew a [00:03:45] lot from there. But what, I mean, if you wanna go way back to a reason that I did [00:03:50] this, so my father was a truck driver and he owned a trucking company, [00:03:55] and when he died, he died in a car accident. And, uh, when he died, [00:04:00] there was no systems in play. Noth- nothing really... No, no, nothing to leave [00:04:05] besides the equipment. My mom was, she just basically, she didn't know what to do. She never ran the company, didn't know anything about it. [00:04:10] So she just sold everything off, all the, all the, you know, the assets for, you know, for pennies on the dollar. [00:04:15] And so that, it was a huge effect on me. So like I never really wanted to create a b- or wanted to [00:04:20] be in a business where I was the only source of income, you know, I was the, you know, [00:04:25] the person. And so, 'cause I knew that if I ever got hurt or, you know, wanted to [00:04:30] go on vacation even, or got, or died, there would be no business left. And [00:04:35] so that had a huge impact early. And so like I said, my whole career, that was kind of the [00:04:40] thing I was thinking of, like, how would I do this if I couldn't work? How would I do this if I wasn't here? How would my [00:04:45] family eat if I was not here? And so that's kind of led me to kind of continually to [00:04:50] learn and drive that to where, you know, and today, yeah, like the practice will run without [00:04:55] me, Hugh Hornsby: I absolutely believe in masterminds, and I always say that if [00:05:00] you're in a room and you're the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room. So, Sam McGough: Well run [00:05:05] Definitely Hugh Hornsby: you know sir Darren Jacklin was just on here [00:05:10] last week. He always say that the most important thing that you can do is put yourself [00:05:15] at the table which is really about the mastermind. In fact I read that [00:05:20] you had one of your masterminds that was called Cestus Mastermind [00:05:25] Developing Leaders. Can you talk a little bit about that? Sam McGough: That was the one, it's called [00:05:30] Aestus. That's how I pronounced it. I can't remember what the Latin word, the, what it, but it was like [00:05:35] basically all ships rise together. And so, uh, we, we, me [00:05:40] and a couple partners built it, and it was just, you know, we just gathered a bunch of people [00:05:45] that we knew, and we started calling people and inviting people to come and share their [00:05:50] experiences with what was working in their in- in our industry and what was not working in our industry. And [00:05:55] that grew, uh, over a course of maybe a year and a half to like a, you [00:06:00] know, it was a pretty big group. And then we would meet quarterly, and we would just kinda like, [00:06:05] you know, and it didn't become a big thing where like, you know, I'm a big, uh, [00:06:10] believer in getting in the group, but I'm also like very leery of like [00:06:15] gurus and, you know, and like, you know, sell high-pressure sales and, you know, [00:06:20] where the, the, the... And you know what I'm talking about. You've seen it all, you know. So [00:06:25] it was a very, it was like, "Hey, like we're not trying to make a lot of money off of it. We're trying to learn." [00:06:30] You know, like, so like we're, the cost is to cover the, to cover everybody [00:06:35] getting here and the food and the things that we were gonna do. And for the most part, that worked [00:06:40] really, really well because everybody understood. It's like, look, no one's here has an agenda other than helping the [00:06:45] other people and learning from the other people. Like I would, I would, I would intentionally not let [00:06:50] vendors in to come in to try to sell us stuff, you know? We would bring educational people [00:06:55] in. It's like, "Hey, we wanna learn something. Let's say we wanna learn tax strategies." We're like, "Okay, let's find the, [00:07:00] the best tax strategy guy, bring him in, but then basically put a leash on him and say he can't sell anything." [00:07:05] You know? And so, uh, and so like now, now I [00:07:10] know people would do business with people 'cause they learned to trust people that were coming in and [00:07:15] giving, you know, full for, you know, just, just giving information away. And so that, and [00:07:20] that, that, that always happens. But the basis was like, you know, how do we all [00:07:25] benefit from this? You know, or, you know, and so, and a place where people could like [00:07:30] be, um, completely transparent, no egos, you know, and [00:07:35] you could learn and you could, so you could also share your, your tragedies or your s- [00:07:40] failures and see who could help you get, get out, go Hugh Hornsby: And probably create some pretty incredible [00:07:45] friendships from that, I would Sam McGough: Yeah. Life, lifelong friendships. Yeah Hugh Hornsby: I used [00:07:50] to have a marathon training group, and that group is like my best friends today. [00:07:55] But those type of groups are incredible Sam McGough: this, they say that Navy [00:08:00] SEALs create these tactical groups and they you know, part of the training process, you know, like those, those [00:08:05] hell weeks and all the things like that, that different the, the high-level military groups go through. They said part of [00:08:10] that camaraderie and brotherhood is formed during pain, you [00:08:15] know, during the struggle, like the, the, those, the long exercises, those endurance things and all that. [00:08:20] And, you know, and, and of course through combat. And so, um, same [00:08:25] thing in business. If you can form these alliances when you're both going through these [00:08:30] struggles, these painful things that happen, you know, y- y- you really do build really, really strong [00:08:35] friendships Hugh Hornsby: Yeah, I agree. I went through cancer diagnosis a couple years [00:08:40] ago, and some of those people that are my very best friends who had gone [00:08:45] through it before were the, are the ones that you know the ones that you just become so close [00:08:50] to, and it's pretty incredible. I know everybody else out there [00:08:55] sitting there and saying, "Okay, why, why are we talking about a medical clinic with Dr. Sam [00:09:00] McGough?" And for those of you that don't know Sam and I met each other about a [00:09:05] year and a half ago. We became instant friends. Marlon Mueller, who is... [00:09:10] You hear that name on here a lot because Marlon is the connector of connectors, connected the two [00:09:15] of us. And Marlon shared with me that there was this really great guy [00:09:20] over in Alabama that was looking at the HVAC business. So we had that [00:09:25] phone call and actually it was one of those calls when you have with somebody, it's like [00:09:30] it's instant friendship. So I knew when I started this [00:09:35] podcast that one of the first people I had on would be Dr. Sam McGough. So [00:09:40] Sam, can you talk a little bit about the reason you're taking a look at [00:09:45] HVAC and kind of just explain to the people out there what you're trying to [00:09:50] do Sam McGough: Yeah. It wasn't like I, I found like recently it seems like there's a bandwagon [00:09:55] like you were talking about earlier, PE, all these people trying to get into the trades. Like I [00:10:00] had a base that I was working with, a, a g- uh, he was a patient of mine. He was a, he was a [00:10:05] plumber and, uh, we were talking one day and, um, [00:10:10] it'll be funny and I was like: "What are you do- what are you doing this afternoon?" And he said, "Well, I'm gonna fly up to [00:10:15] Chattanooga and have dinner with my wife. Me and my wife are gonna fly up and then we'll fly back." I said, "Wait a minute, you [00:10:20] got a plane?" He's like, "Yeah, I have my own plane." And I was like, and, [00:10:25] uh, and what was... I was like, "Do you fly it?" He's like, "No, I don't fly it. I have a pilot. He flies it. I'm... You know, he's [00:10:30] gonna fly us up. We're gonna fly back tonight. It's our favorite place to eat." I'm like, "That's, that's incredible. What do [00:10:35] you... I, I thought you were a plumber." And he's like, "Yeah, but I'm also [00:10:40] own like, it's like 150 houses and I have a HVAC company and I have an electrical [00:10:45] company." I was like, "How do you own all those pl- all those pro- those properties?" And he's like, [00:10:50] "Well," you know, he kind of went through it, but, but what stuck out for me, it was, [00:10:55] you know, one, we use real estate for taxes, you know, to kind of help with the tax game. [00:11:00] But he said, "I could never have owned all these homes if I couldn't control the cost of, [00:11:05] uh, of the, uh, repairs." He said, "So we could do all the, all the [00:11:10] work." And so that got me thinking, 'cause as, you know, as in my businesses, my other businesses [00:11:15] grew, I started buying real estate too. Well, then I started thinking like, [00:11:20] "Well, I've gotta control the cost. I've gotta get in- involved." And then I, I, you know, I met a guy [00:11:25] that was the... And I, I think this is after I talked to you. We had already been talking. I'm looking for businesses [00:11:30] and I, you know, looking to buy businesses, looking to acquire different places. And, uh, we had, I'd looked at [00:11:35] roofing from my in- you know, from my background in insurance with [00:11:40] medical. I, I didn't want nothing to do with an insurance-backed industry. [00:11:45] Um, I wanted something, if I give a job, you pay me, and then I [00:11:50] don't want anybody else in the, in the loop. You know what I mean? Hugh Hornsby: Which that kinda got rid of I guess roofing [00:11:55] kinda moved that out, or at least partial Sam McGough: Yeah, I was like, well, you know, I [00:12:00] knew that was a big part of the industry. I was-- At the time I was talking to a guy that was in roofing and he had a roofing company and [00:12:05] I was thinking about trying to like, you know, you know, buy in or something and, and the more I thought about it [00:12:10] I was like, you know, I, I don't wanna do that. And, um, but then I, actually I [00:12:15] met a guy that was, uh, he really knew the in- the industry really or the, the technical [00:12:20] component of it, but he had a lot of... He was struggling with the business portion of it. So we made it, we struck a deal. [00:12:25] Um, we did that. We started in January of this year. Um, [00:12:30] we quickly added electrical. We're in the process of trying to bring on [00:12:35] plumbing. Um, and, uh, we're growing at a pretty rapid rate, you know, [00:12:40] just sticking to several business principles that we, that, you know, uh, we're not [00:12:45] advertising yet. We will be, but you know, we're, we're getting all of our bases covered, like our [00:12:50] SOPs and things in play. We're growing at a rate that's really very, uh... [00:12:55] It, it's manageable right now. You know, we've had, you know, so like we're, you know, hiring [00:13:00] techs, we're, we're bringing on new trucks, you know. So... But that's what got [00:13:05] me into it and, and what-- To me it was full circle, [00:13:10] 'cause my dad was a blue collar guy, you know. Truck driver, he ran heavy [00:13:15] equipment. Um, and so now I'm looking at heavy equipment, I'm looking at other, some of the other industries. [00:13:20] And, and I'm just loving getting back into the, like where I, you know, kind of how I [00:13:25] grew up. Um, Hugh Hornsby: It's kind of the roots of where you came from, right? Sam McGough: kind of... [00:13:30] Well, it's, it's funny 'cause like my dad, you know, blue collar guy, truck driver, you know, I said [00:13:35] heavy machinery, you know, stuff like that. Go to college, go to college, go to college, you know. That was the th- that was the, [00:13:40] the track that they, they, everybody wanted their kids to do. You know, tw- well gosh, I'm almost gonna say 20 [00:13:45] years ago, so it's more like 30 years ago . But, um, you know, um, [00:13:50] if I could go back I would never go to, I would never go to college. I'd never, I would never [00:13:55] do it. I'd go into any, into a trade, whether it was HVAC, electrical, [00:14:00] welding, you know, uh, um, plumbing even, you know. Uh, and I [00:14:05] would learn that trade and I would learn business and I would be, I would probably be in [00:14:10] a lot better position than I am today, which is not a bad position to be in, but it's still, I would be, I... And I [00:14:15] would, I would love what I do, 'cause, uh, I still, I love [00:14:20] creating customer service Hugh Hornsby: Yeah Sam McGough: and I think that is, that is super [00:14:25] important. And then I also love creating, like I've talked to my business partner, we've talked a lot about it, [00:14:30] is still that same thing. I wanna, I like to create a business where I don't have to be in it. [00:14:35] I like, I, I wanna create the culture, I wanna create all the, you know, some of the processes, [00:14:40] but I wanna be able to take a vacation . You know, I wanna be able to take a sick day, [00:14:45] you know? Um, you know, think about Hugh Hornsby: maybe take your plane to go to dinner. Sam McGough: [00:14:50] Or may- I don't think-- I'm the same. I don't want to fly a plane. I have a friend, and we fly all, all the [00:14:55] time with his plane, and he flies it. And I have no-- I, I want nothing to do with flying a [00:15:00] plane. But yes, I do like the fact of driving up to my, to the plane, putting your [00:15:05] stuff in it, like, you know, driving directly up to it, putting your stuff in it, and taking off [00:15:10] exactly whenever you want to. That, uh, and same thing, landing whenever you want to and not having to, to wait [00:15:15] in the airport. That, that is really nice Hugh Hornsby: So let's talk a little [00:15:20] bit, because you're a systems guy, right? Sam McGough: I think I'm just lazy. But I, I try [00:15:25] to get out of the way- people's way. We try to hire well and you try to like s- you know, you [00:15:30] have a way you want something done, but I've always been open to like a better way and half the [00:15:35] time the, the employees will come up with a better way. And then if they come up with a wrong way, you just got to [00:15:40] tell them why, you know, why this impacts some other way. You know, like, so like maybe it impacts [00:15:45] revenue or impacts someone down the line. Like, well, if you did it that way it would hurt someone down the line. And they usually are [00:15:50] okay with that. They're like, "Oh, okay, well that, or that would, that would mess up revenue down the line." And they'll, they'll [00:15:55] just keep reworking it until like really it's-- I say I just try to be like as lazy as [00:16:00] possible Hugh Hornsby: And it's funny you say that because Gary S. Michel was on [00:16:05] here a couple weeks ago, and Gary was the, the president of Trane at one [00:16:10] time. He's been the president of several companies. I really had the conversation to [00:16:15] ask him how he turned all these companies around, and his big thing was [00:16:20] that so many people when somebody comes and asks them a question, they they [00:16:25] wanna have the answer, and his big thing was " The way I was successful is I just ask [00:16:30] them questions because I wanted to help them figure it out." I don't know if that [00:16:35] makes Sam McGough: No, it makes a lot of sense. My team knows that, that when they have a problem [00:16:40] to come, to come in with... When they come with, to me with the problem, they better have at least a lu- a solution [00:16:45] that, that... 'Cause like, basically, if you, like, and you know this, if you remove yourself [00:16:50] far away from like, you know, like they have a better idea of h- what's working and [00:16:55] what's happening. And so like, I was like, "Well, how would you fix this if you could fix it this way?" And [00:17:00] then if you just gotta get out of the way, but you also, like I said, they may not know the, the next three [00:17:05] steps down the line that you do, and if you can point it out where that would make a problem, [00:17:10] they, they... So like I said, they don't wanna, they don't wanna mess up revenue either. They don't wanna mess up, you know, their, [00:17:15] their, their colleague down the, down the, down the line. So if you can just [00:17:20] get out of the way, but yeah, g- get people to give you solutions. Uh, you'll find that they, they come up... [00:17:25] 'Cause Hugh Hornsby: I think you said Sam McGough: I can say it. Hugh Hornsby: Yeah, that's because you're [00:17:30] hiring the right people Sam McGough: well, you, you, well, I, you hire fast, you [00:17:35] fire faster, you know? Um, uh, [00:17:40] so like I, I used to su-subscribe to the hire slow, fire fast. Today's world, you [00:17:45] cannot hire slow. You c- you can't do multiple interviews. You can't like... [00:17:50] There's, there's none of that, 'cause people are taking jobs as fast as possible, you know? And then [00:17:55] if, if, you know, if you, you wanna slow down and get to know them a little bit, [00:18:00] you're gonna have to pay for it. And so I hire fast, but then like, like [00:18:05] you're looking for an attitude, you're looking for those things, like the, then those are the [00:18:10] intangible things that, you know, um, that you're looking for. All the other stuff can be [00:18:15] trained Hugh Hornsby: Well, and as long as they have a burning desire, right? So [00:18:20] a little Think and Grow Rich in there. But what if you find that person it can be pretty [00:18:25] incredible. Right now, as you know, HVAC, plumbing, [00:18:30] electrical just home services altogether there's an aging out of the [00:18:35] industry. What are your thoughts about that? Sam McGough: So [00:18:40] here's what I've seen and, and I have thought my thoughts on it is it's not uncommon [00:18:45] or unlike a lot of boom, like boomer b- businesses and, and nothing about [00:18:50] boomers. I'm not saying it's... I'm just talking about the age group that we're dealing with now [00:18:55] That people, their businesses are not prepared for sale because they're still the biggest piece of it.[00:19:00] They're still the rainmaker, you know? And so if [00:19:05] that's, that's makes it really hard to sell, which is, is you're buying a [00:19:10] personality. So like imagine if I'm the only guy running the company and I'm keeping it together, [00:19:15] you know, because, you know, my will and I'm, I'm, I'm hustling and I'm working and I'm [00:19:20] still a huge part of it. It's, it's, it's hard for that to transfer to another [00:19:25] person or to another company. And so s- building out your systems [00:19:30] and your SOPs and, and don't even... If you ever even wanna, like now [00:19:35] PE's big. PE doesn't buy small companies. Like they don't buy like, you know, a guy [00:19:40] who's making, you know, couple hundred thousand in EBITDA or seller dis- or SDE. They don't [00:19:45] buy those. Um, and what you have a lot of guys who's, you know, s- hovering [00:19:50] between the 1 million and maybe 3 to 5 million in revenue and I, I, you [00:19:55] know, and they don't have a lot... They're still b- such a big part of the system. They're, they're still dropping back [00:20:00] down into, into running calls. They're still, you know, managing day-to-day operations, or [00:20:05] they're doing, you know, or, or their whole family, their wife, they're this, they're that, you [00:20:10] know. And that makes it really... I said it's, it's hard about transferring, you know. [00:20:15] And, and that also to, to reduces your who's gonna buy you, right? If you're [00:20:20] looking to sell in the next three to five years, who's gonna buy you? So start with the end in mind. Who, [00:20:25] who, what level? 'Cause, you know, there's, there's, there's industry buyers, you know, and then there's, [00:20:30] you know, then there's, you know, small PEs, LMP, you know, like there's, there's, you know, your [00:20:35] neighbors. Who's go- who can buy you and who's gonna... You know, so you gotta start thinking about that. [00:20:40] And so what are they looking for, right? You're designing your business around the s- the buyer, not [00:20:45] like... It's like we see it all day is they're like, "I want such and such for my, you know, money for my business." I'm like, [00:20:50] "There's a very realistic formula how we come up with a valuation for [00:20:55] your business, and it's not because that's how much money I need to... My financial advisor told me that's how [00:21:00] much money I need to retire." You know? Um, and so I think that's [00:21:05] a big part of the problem is, like we've decided we're gonna sell. I mean, even [00:21:10] you've been through these buyouts. It's a s- it's a year-long process. [00:21:15] You know, even once you get the offer. Once you get the offer, then there's a, you know... And so, [00:21:20] uh, that makes it hard 'cause they just, 'cause a lot of times they wait too late [00:21:25] too. So they've decided they're gonna sell like my ba- my health or this or that's happening, and I got [00:21:30] six months. You know, one out of 12 businesses sell, [00:21:35] and there's, there's millions for sale right now. Hugh Hornsby: It's almost kind of [00:21:40] scary for people and, uh, and I- it's almost like what you said [00:21:45] about your dad, you know? It's like it wasn't anything there. And then I had a [00:21:50] conversation last w- week with somebody and they, they were talking that same [00:21:55] thing happened to their dad. Um, owned a plumbing business and he went to go [00:22:00] sell and he didn't have anything to sell. So what's your thoughts on [00:22:05] those type businesses Because you're in a position to look for other [00:22:10] businesses to buy. Are you looking for somebody that maybe wants to stay in the business for five [00:22:15] years and then you can transition them out? Or what, what are you thinking about? Sam McGough: I would love, love [00:22:20] that too, but we're actively or are actively trying to acquire, um, [00:22:25] different businesses or, you know, in the trades, uh, but if, you know... [00:22:30] But yeah, if that's the thing is that's even a best-case scenario. So think about, so a guy who's [00:22:35] like in his like very maybe 50s or something, or he's decided he wants to retire, he's, you know, [00:22:40] looking at his, his timeline, his whatever. He doesn't really, you know. And, and that's what I would say, if [00:22:45] you're a big part of the business, like you're still running calls or you're still the [00:22:50] one writing the checks, running, you know, doing the, you know, handling all the, the hiring, the [00:22:55] firing, all those positions, you're still the one, you know, like you're talking to the marketing companies, you're [00:23:00] doing this, you're running operations, like you, you need somebody who maybe [00:23:05] could help you put some things in play and, and pull yourself out of the business. 'Cause [00:23:10] see, if I'm out of the business and then there's someone else running it [00:23:15] and I'm up here, I'm, I'm still collecting a salary, that's, that's, that's money left on the table for the, for the [00:23:20] buyer, you know? But if I'm in the business and I'm collecting a salary, that's [00:23:25] money off the table for the buyer. Now it's, now that's money off of you. So the, 'cause the buyer's [00:23:30] like, "I've gotta replace you, but how do I replace you? So I've gotta pay someone or I've gotta do it." So [00:23:35] that's what I said, it reduces your buyer. So the buyer is a trade buyer who's like, "Hey, I can come in, [00:23:40] I can do your job for you 'cause I already do your job on my business." So that's, that's fine. You're gonna get a lower, [00:23:45] lower amount of money 'cause those guys typically don't have the, the cash flow and, and a lot of [00:23:50] times, and this happens a lot when you go to look at these companies, they don't cash flow. [00:23:55] And so, um, cash flow guys, like if you run your business to [00:24:00] where you don't overpay taxes, when you try to put a valuation on it, it's not gonna look as good. You [00:24:05] want a, you want a cash flow. Hugh Hornsby: Yeah Sam McGough: Uh, cash flow gets loans, you [00:24:10] know? If, so if you're wanting a bunch of money for your business, well, especially in that, I would say the small [00:24:15] business portion of it, you better be, you better be able to cash flow and you better be able to do [00:24:20] those add backs and take it out so that, so that the company that wants to buy you can afford to [00:24:25] pay for you. So it, there's a lot of it that goes into... And I think a- another big [00:24:30] thing for, for guys that are wanting to sell is like, don't wait until the last minute and also [00:24:35] educate yourself. And if you don't wanna hire a partner or wanna hire someone who's, who's done it before, you [00:24:40] know, spend the time and effort and maybe some money to educate yourself Hugh Hornsby: And figure out [00:24:45] how it works. If you wait till it's too late you don't have anything to sell. [00:24:50] What is it that you're trying to-- What, what, what is it that your group is trying to do? Are you, [00:24:55] are you trying to roll these up some Do you have a strategy, and do you mind sharing it? Sam McGough: [00:25:00] No, no, definitely a strategy. Um, so in mind [00:25:05] always to It's funny [00:25:10] because thing-- in my mind, your, your strategy, but also your, your [00:25:15] goal changes every few years or every few months. I mean, so it's an ever-evolving change, you know. [00:25:20] So like, but my goal right now is to get about, you know, $20 to $50 million [00:25:25] in, in, in, in, in businesses put together, like all in home services.[00:25:30] Um, you know, that's top line and create a good, a [00:25:35] good, you know, 35%, 30%, 35% profit margin would be [00:25:40] great. Um, and so then now I have options. [00:25:45] You see what I mean? I don't have to sell, but I'm having a good time making money or I have [00:25:50] the option. If you can create a business like that, you know, it's like you said that you-- the, [00:25:55] it's like create a sellable business that's a profitable business, and I-- [00:26:00] then you, like I said, you have options because you can run it as long as you want to or, uh, if it's a [00:26:05] decent... Like even, it don't have to be at that level, even smaller level. So if you're running a, let's [00:26:10] say a $5 million top line and you're, you're peeling off $1 to $2 [00:26:15] million, um, you know, for yourself every year, you're making [00:26:20] money and you're having fun, you know? But also that's a, that's a very reasonable [00:26:25] sellable business, you know. And if you're, if you're not in the day-to-day [00:26:30] operations, you've pulled yourself out, you know, into those d- day-to-day operations, you're having fun because you're going on [00:26:35] vacations, you're going on trips, you're not getting up and on the grind every day. So, [00:26:40] you know, just the, the goal for me has always been the same, to create a business that runs without me, that I [00:26:45] can be a part of. I can go in and do, you know, and, and, you know, do my, get my [00:26:50] like, you know, my fix to, to, you know, for, for my dealing with the, the, the, you know, [00:26:55] get into the mix. A lot of times too is, you know, you'll end up messing things up, you [00:27:00] know, so like, but I just like to come in and, and build something. But like I said, [00:27:05] I, I just, I don't have like a traditional goal. It's, but [00:27:10] it's like, it's the, it's the, it's the process, you know? Hugh Hornsby: Yeah. Sam McGough: And [00:27:15] so, and, and so like want the process to be working, [00:27:20] and like I said, if I wanna sell, I can sell Hugh Hornsby: And from what I [00:27:25] understand with you, customer service is a huge part of that, which means [00:27:30] relationships are really big for you Sam McGough: Yeah. So, [00:27:35] know, so you got thing B2C, B2B, right? So, [00:27:40] you know, each one of them does-- And so 'cause we do commercial, we do residential, we [00:27:45] do, we do both, and I, I actually, a lot of people don't like commercial, but I love it. Um, but [00:27:50] creating relationships is huge. But then, you know, [00:27:55] creating, like if we're just thinking B2C, the cr- relationship with a cut [00:28:00] consumer is so important and the, I think it... And it's [00:28:05] not just trades, it happens in medical and it probably happens in a lot of different businesses [00:28:10] where the consumer gets kinda like they're, they're left out. They're just, they're, you know, they need [00:28:15] you, whatever. People don't think about and they're not putting as much emphasis on like how important [00:28:20] it is to them that you treat them right. You know? Um, I had a guy, and this is, this is, [00:28:25] you know... Like if I take off work to sit at home [00:28:30] because my HVAC or plumbing or electrical, I need someone to be, because you know, you need someone to let them in, you [00:28:35] need someone to do it. I've taken off work. Like it's important for me to just, for you to be in, in that [00:28:40] window of time, you know? And how many times have people not called, not done, [00:28:45] not showed up late or sh- or showed up late or not showed up at all, like what does that make? That [00:28:50] makes me feel so not important to you, you know? And so like, [00:28:55] why would I wanna do business with someone I'm not important to? And so I, I actually think that's the [00:29:00] biggest problem with a lot of service industries, not just home services. I mean, not just [00:29:05] blue collar stuff. I said medical too. Think you've been to your medical doctor and they don't even look up at [00:29:10] you. They just give you a clipboard and say, "Fill this out." You know? And I, and I just, I can't stand [00:29:15] it. And so I think people, you know, like I tell my, my, all my teams, [00:29:20] that person is how you have a paycheck And so, [00:29:25] you know, and it's like, so you have to treat them like, like that. They, they're not just a [00:29:30] number Hugh Hornsby: Well, and that's what I love about you, Sam, because you [00:29:35] are somebody that cares about people, and it's probably why the Discovery Clinic [00:29:40] has done so well. And I know you have a group called Hunt for Success. [00:29:45] Is that something that's, um, you know, that you wanna Sam McGough: [00:29:50] l-labor of love. Yeah, um, it's a podcast. It's where I interview, [00:29:55] um, entrepreneurs and, and business people that also-- 'cause my, one of [00:30:00] my passions is hunting and fishing and, and, uh, I, I just interview like different [00:30:05] entrepreneurs and business people that love h- the outdoors, and we'll talk about both. And it's [00:30:10] really just a labor of love and, and I'm trying to, you know, just, uh... And, and I love, I love [00:30:15] connecting with people like you, you know, and connecting with people. Um, just like that mastermind, [00:30:20] uh, effect is the more people I can talk to and relate to and tell [00:30:25] stories and when they hear their stories and talk to them and ask questions, you know, it's [00:30:30] just I-- then now I have, I have multiple people to go hunting with, you know, like hunting buddies and [00:30:35] fishing buddies and, uh, and also I have like buddies you can run something by. "Hey man, you know, how have you, how's [00:30:40] that, you know, how's that work?" You know? How, you know. Um, so it's, it's really the [00:30:45] same thing and it, but it's just different, you know? And so now we're focused in on the, like finding all the business [00:30:50] owners and business people that love the hunting and fishing lifestyle, and then how can we [00:30:55] build a, a community where we can all go hunting and fishing, but [00:31:00] we can also talk about business, you know, and entrepreneurship and, and, and [00:31:05] that's, that's, that's, like I said, that's my passion. That's what I like doing. I found no matter where I'm at, that's what I'm talking about. [00:31:10] I'm talking about one or the other. Between that and my family, you know? Hugh Hornsby: I love that you put that [00:31:15] mastermind together in the medical community. I would love to see a ma- Sam McGough: it in, let's do it in, let's do it in [00:31:20] HVAC or let's do it in the, in the blue collar trades Hugh Hornsby: I would challenge you that [00:31:25] I would be on board with you to help put that together. So let's have that [00:31:30] conversation because I think the trade's needed as much as anything, and, it's a [00:31:35] great way to make it a, a better place to be. The trades right now are the [00:31:40] place. It's like these kids are coming out with 60 to $70,000 in debt. A lot of [00:31:45] them they don't even have jobs it's such a great opportunity. [00:31:50] When we hear about trades, you kinda think about turning wrenches, and [00:31:55] really the opportunity there that I think has been [00:32:00] missed is that how do you take somebody, teach them the financial [00:32:05] acumen, not only to maybe become a entrepreneur, but also to [00:32:10] manage their daily business so that when they do become [00:32:15] 65 or they do become 60 and they're ready to get out of it they [00:32:20] have something to look for. Do you have any thoughts on that? Sam McGough: [00:32:25] Yeah. I mean, that's a long, long drawn-out thing. But yes, I mean [00:32:30] I mean, really it's just principles. [00:32:35] Like, uh, I think, and this is not just like [00:32:40] blue-collar trades, this is-- I mean, I've run into a bunch of different people between, you know, [00:32:45] medical or, um, you know, just different, different, um, business [00:32:50] owners. They're just so busy doing their job, [00:32:55] they're not paying attention to any of the other things, you know? And so [00:33:00] I think that happens, especially in blue collar. Like, I don't think it's hard to find [00:33:05] jobs, Hugh Hornsby: Nav Sam McGough: you know what I mean? To find business, I mean. Um, 'cause like there's so [00:33:10] much building infrastructure, there's so many problems happening. I mean, everything we m- we make [00:33:15] now is made to break at some point, you know? And so like there's always this [00:33:20] constant need, and I think that's, that can get people in trouble because, and I noticed this with, you [00:33:25] know, as we're building our business, is they're so concentrated on the doing, they're not paying [00:33:30] attention to the little details. And so that's where I c- like for, like one of my guys that came in, [00:33:35] it's like, so like how much, how much gas and time are we using? [00:33:40] You know, how many times do we have to run to the parts store? You know, uh, you know, [00:33:45] things like that, you know, that's where our profits are being eaten alive, you know? [00:33:50] Um, you know, finance fees, can we get a lower disc- a lower rate? [00:33:55] You know, can we get, you know, better discounts? Can we get better discounts on our, on our, on all of [00:34:00] our other things? One of the things we did with our mastermind, which I thought was very, very powerful, [00:34:05] is we stopped negotiating as one. We started negotiating as a group. We [00:34:10] drove the prices down, you know, for everything. And [00:34:15] so, and like, so we took that mentality of this big PE firm who buys in [00:34:20] bulk, and we would do it across, you know, multiple providers across [00:34:25] the country, and we would negotiate as one. It's just a group buying purch- purchasing, you know, [00:34:30] organization. And so, um, and I don't think... Guys are so [00:34:35] busy just hammering out and doing their job, they're not paying... It's like, what is the [00:34:40] say? Pay, it's like, say, uh, to pay attention to the pennies and the dollars will come or something like that. I think there's a [00:34:45] saying something like that, but it's like, it's the little, little bitty details, that's what creates that margin, [00:34:50] you know? Um, that's some of the, you know, the things that, that [00:34:55] these guys could be learning. And then what do you do with your money when you, when you get [00:35:00] it? Hugh Hornsby: Yeah Sam McGough: making money, and what do you do with it? Where do you invest it? You know, [00:35:05] the, the minute you start making money, like real money, you know, [00:35:10] every, every freaking, you know, shark and, and you [00:35:15] know, and scammer comes at you, you know, with tax strategies, [00:35:20] investment ideas, and all these things like that. Well, those are some other [00:35:25] things that y- that, and like I said, needs to be learned or a little bit by ti- I mean If people [00:35:30] would just invest a pack of cigarettes a day into the S&P 500, you know, or [00:35:35] something s- you know, stupid like that, you know? Um, but all these things gotta be [00:35:40] considered, and they gotta be considered over a long period of time. Like wealth, wealth doesn't hap- I mean, very [00:35:45] rarely unless you win the lottery, wealth doesn't happen over- overnight. Um, and, [00:35:50] you know, taxes mitigation is a big thing, and I'm not a tax [00:35:55] strategist, but I definitely know a lot of different ways to, to play that game and to rut, skin that [00:36:00] cat. You know, we're trying to do everything ethically, legally possible [00:36:05] to reduce our tax burden, but to increase our profits, you know? Um, [00:36:10] and then, you know, like I said, investments is like you gotta have [00:36:15] buckets of money for investments. Like, before you even think about these wild [00:36:20] investments that's gonna get you like, you know, 20% return, [00:36:25] invest in something that's very stable, very... And build a bucket of money that your fortress. After you [00:36:30] got that, you can take some, you can take some chances, you know? And they may hit, [00:36:35] but you can, you can invest a, like a pretty simple amount and, and regular consistent money. [00:36:40] Like Warren Buffett talks about that. It's consistency, you know, [00:36:45] s- in small wins. They got, they got base runs. They didn't get home runs. They got base runs [00:36:50] every time, and, and that's what, that's what built, you know, big wealth[00:36:55] Hugh Hornsby: I think your idea about maybe putting together a mastermind, I would love [00:37:00] to have that conversation with you. Sam McGough: I would love to do it. I, it, it, [00:37:05] it's such a, a, a... I'll give you an experience I had just recently. I went, uh, one of our [00:37:10] dealers brought us out to their factory, and we were, you know, there with a bunch of other guys [00:37:15] from all over the country. And I noticed something that was a little different than my experience in the [00:37:20] medical world is... Well, the first experience, the first thing is exactly the [00:37:25] same. Everybody wanted to, like, do what I call blank measuring, where they want to talk [00:37:30] about all the good things, about how ba- you know, how awesome their, their business was and where they were at. Everybody [00:37:35] wanted to do that. But what I did notice is everybody was really [00:37:40] standoffish about telling any strategies or anything that was, that was [00:37:45] performing well for them. And, uh, I would tell you [00:37:50] that that would be what I would, I would harp on or I would tell people is like, "I [00:37:55] get it. You don't wanna tell your guy down the road your strategy that's, that's, that's winning." [00:38:00] Totally understand that. That's why very strategically putting these [00:38:05] masterminds together where you're not, you know, hurting people, but that way [00:38:10] you can openly share what's working, 'cause the g- you want the guy down the [00:38:15] street, or not down the street, y- you know, I'm, I'm, I'm ruthless. I want to, like, murder... Not murder, but I, [00:38:20] you know, I wanna, I want Hugh Hornsby: You, you wanna te- Sam McGough: down the street. You know, I just wanna crush [00:38:25] everybody in my area. That's just, you know. But, but if I'm in a room, I [00:38:30] wanna be able to share exactly my, my, my experiences, good and bad, and I [00:38:35] want the guy on the, ac- you know, across the table from me to do the same 'cause... And then, like you said, the, the [00:38:40] dumbest guy in the room, I like to be the dumbest guy in the room. I wanna be the smallest guy in the room. I wanna talk to the guy [00:38:45] that's doing 100 million, f- 50 million, 10 million, 5 million. I wanna talk to all those levels. [00:38:50] They all have different experiences. They can all tell you different things. So yeah, I think [00:38:55] masterminds are, are great if they're structured properly. Hugh Hornsby: Yeah Sam McGough: you know, the big thing is [00:39:00] what you see online is the mastermind. It's really not a mastermind. It's a sales [00:39:05] tactic, and you're paying for the, for the privilege to be sold to, and I can't stand that Hugh Hornsby: [00:39:10] Yeah when I was a kid I was diagnosed with epilepsy at the age [00:39:15] of 10 and then ninth grade they tried to send me to special needs I had to look at the world [00:39:20] from a very different perspective. And so I might not have been the smartest guy in [00:39:25] class, but I was the one that could look at things and see things other people couldn't. And [00:39:30] part of that was every time that I had a failure, I'd go home and I'd say something to my [00:39:35] mom she'd say, "All right, Hugh, you take 15 minutes for a pity party." [00:39:40] And then she'd give me a yellow pad with a pencil and say, "Go up [00:39:45] and ask yourself what you're gonna do different. And then come back and tell me what type of [00:39:50] action you're gonna take with it." So if there's a yellow pad moment that [00:39:55] Sam, Dr. Sam McGough has, what would that yellow pad moment be [00:40:00] that you wanna sell, share with the rest of the people out [00:40:05] there? Sam McGough: Yeah. So [00:40:10] the systems of... And, and think of like your, I think your [00:40:15] number, when I realized my number one goal in business was to not be [00:40:20] nece-necessary in the business, [00:40:25] and I think of it a couple ways. So especially in the, in the, you know, one, I could [00:40:30] vac- I could take vacations, I could be sick, I could, you know, whatever could happen. But on the other hand [00:40:35] too is you, we all ha- you know, have to think about our individual health and the things like [00:40:40] that. You know, at some point you're gonna age out of wanting to crawl underneath a house, [00:40:45] you know, or in an attic when it's, it, I don't, it's, I bet it's 100, it's Alabama, it's, [00:40:50] it's Sep- September 1st. It is at least 100 degrees outside right now. Um, [00:40:55] and so like at some point you're just not gonna be able to do that healthy. And if you're in a business where [00:41:00] you're relied on like physically to do something, at some point you're gonna have to give it [00:41:05] up. And I think people have gotten conditioned to think, "Well, I'll [00:41:10] work until I'm 65, then I'll retire." And if you're working for, you know, a company and you're doing [00:41:15] that, that's, and you've got 401and all that other stuff like that, that's fine. But if you're in [00:41:20] your own business, you pr- typically a lot of guys just don't do that early enough. They don't put all that stuff in [00:41:25] play. They don't have that. But then again, if you've built a business and you're, and you've decided you're gonna [00:41:30] retire, if you are still physically doing the job, [00:41:35] it's just gonna be harder to sell. And so what happens, like we just said, one out of 12 [00:41:40] businesses don't, or sell, so those other 11 close Hugh Hornsby: [00:41:45] Wow Sam McGough: because, you know, it goes on the market, no one buys it. [00:41:50] First, you br- you more than likely got it priced too high, and by the time that everybody [00:41:55] figures out that you're selling, your employees are gone, everybody's, your bus- people are, stop doing business with [00:42:00] you 'cause they know you're not gonna be there to service them next week, and you know, and it just goes from there. So like [00:42:05] you have a short window of time to like, to like, to, to put it on the [00:42:10] market and sell it bef- because it doesn't matter. People are gonna find out. Your, your employees are gonna find [00:42:15] out. They're gonna feel, you know, they're gonna figure it out or they're gonna just say, "God, he's, you know, he's 75 [00:42:20] years old. He's gotta be retiring at some point." So they're gonna, if they don't see a business that's gonna be [00:42:25] there, regardless if you're there or, or not there, they're gonna start looking for [00:42:30] somewhere else to go 'cause they want security and you're not giving them that security anymore. So you gotta think [00:42:35] five, six, eight years in the pl- in the before and, you know, have a [00:42:40] plan. You don't have to exit, but be able to exit, you know? Hugh Hornsby: [00:42:45] Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense. So Sam the audience out [00:42:50] there when they turn this thing off, they usually say, "Okay, wow, I wish Hugh would ask [00:42:55] Sam a certain question." Is there a certain question that [00:43:00] I haven't asked you that you think everybody else probably would wanna [00:43:05] know? Sam McGough: But here's a question I [00:43:10] got recently, and, um, and a guy, you know, a friend of mine, went to [00:43:15] college with him. He, he's like, "How do you, how did, how did you take, you know, how did you spend [00:43:20] like three weeks in Italy?" And I was like... And then, you know, I, [00:43:25] this, this year I've been to 10 countries already, just, you know, [00:43:30] vacations with the wife or with the family or whatever. And I, and I was like, "I created [00:43:35] systems. I created a job that doesn't need me to run." And, and I think that's the biggest thing. [00:43:40] And I said there's nothing, like, it is, it is, uh, it's not complete freedom. Look, I [00:43:45] still have to think about things. I still answer emails and stuff, you know? I still do stuff. But, [00:43:50] I mean, creating a business where you have, one, enough cash flow to [00:43:55] pay yourself well, and then two, enough freedom [00:44:00] to, to, you know, to take the day off, to take vacations, [00:44:05] to go, "Honey, I'm going to, I'm going to Canada for three weeks next week. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna hunt [00:44:10] moose and caribou." You know? I mean, and that's not important to everybody, but it's important to [00:44:15] me. But more importantly, I don't miss, I don't miss my kids' things anymore. [00:44:20] You know? I don't miss my kids', you know, like when they have, you know, ball games or they have events or [00:44:25] whatever. I don't miss those, you know? Hugh Hornsby: That, that, Sam McGough: so that, that's really important to [00:44:30] me Hugh Hornsby: Well, . I wanna say thanks for the friendship. You know, sometimes you meet [00:44:35] people in life and Sa- you know, Sam is one of those people. To have this [00:44:40] conversation with you, it's gonna mean so much to so many people that are out there. [00:44:45] Um, if Sam, if somebody wants to get ahold of Sam and, [00:44:50] and you know, Dr. Sam McGough, and, um, you know, what is [00:44:55] the best way for them to pick up the phone or, or email [00:45:00] you, um, and have a conversation? Sam McGough: there's probably so many [00:45:05] ways. I mean, you can find me on Facebook at Sam and You. Uh, you can find me on Instagram. Uh, I [00:45:10] think it's the same thing. I mean, I'm not good at all these things. The Hunt for Success has all the channels, [00:45:15] and also even on their website, thehuntforsuccess.com has a, a, a link [00:45:20] that you can, you can get a, a contact with me and, um, uh, a, [00:45:25] you know, that's, that's probably the best way, um, to get [00:45:30] a, to, to get, uh, you know, on my calendar 'cause it goes straight to Mikayla, and Mikayla takes care of my calendar. [00:45:35] And so if, you know, and, and so that'll, uh, that'll, uh, Mikayla's my [00:45:40] assistant. But, uh, yeah, if, um, that's the easiest way to get in touch with me is go, yeah, probably go straight to The [00:45:45] Hunt for Success. But yeah, Discovery Medical Center, uh, uh, PrimeTime [00:45:50] Home Services, all those things have links to me Hugh Hornsby: That's, that, that is awesome. [00:45:55] I just wanna say thank you. I think the message that you've sent to the [00:46:00] trades business today is one that I think a lot of people are gonna be listening to. And [00:46:05] congratulations to you for being able to build a business and build the [00:46:10] systems in the business and the people in the business that can run it and put you in a [00:46:15] position to have a little bit of freedom to do what it is that you want.[00:46:20] You have a great day, and thank you. And hey, and thanks for the [00:46:25] friendship Sam McGough: Oh, thanks, Hugh. And I'm, I was happy to be here, and I'm always happy to do anything for you. [00:46:30] So yeah, the friendship's the best part Hugh Hornsby: I appreciate it ​[00:46:35] [00:46:40] [00:46:45] [00:46:50] [00:46:55] [00:47:00]